Talk:Western New Guinea

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Western New Guinea was a good article candidate, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. Once the objections listed below are addressed, the article can be renominated. You may also seek a review of the decision if you feel there was a mistake.

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Contents

[edit] name

isnt this more commonly known as Irian Jaya? 1.15 mil hits compared to 94,000 -- Astrokey44|talk 12:30, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Not anymore. It was changed because it's an Indonesian name. Most people now refer to it as Papua but this is misleading because it only refers to the province that comprises the larger half of western New Guinea. Papua also can refer to the whole island.
The name "West Papua" is used by separatists, that's why we use "Western New Guinea" on Wikipedia. --Khoikhoi 21:43, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
"West Papua" is the title which the elected West New Guinea Raad (parliament) chose for the nation in 1961. Most English speakers call the region West Papua mostly because it is the western half of the island and is easier to say that "Western New Guinea". IF you say the use of 'West Papua' is only due to "separatists", then how many separatists are you claiming there to be?

[edit] Transmigration

I'm skeptical of the way this is phrased:

The transmigration's purpose is to tip the West Papuan population from the heavily Melanesian Papuans toward a more Asian "balance," thus further consolidating Indonesian control.

It's without a reference and more importantly while it's probably one of the reasons, Indonesia transmigrations are occuring all of Indonesia including in areas that are not in any risk of breaking away. Many people agree that they are at least partially about rebalancing the distribution (and therefore density) of the Indonesian population which is largely centred on Java... Nil Einne 14:59, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I concur, although I'd suggest that any change should be an addition (i.e. making the point you do above) rather than not including the perspective represented by the original sentence (although that sentiment could probably stated more clearly itself). I'd also add that the main element of new Indonesian in-migration to western New Guinea is from so-called "spontaneous migrants" - i.e. those coming of their own volition, mainly for reasons of economic opportunity - rather than "transmigrants", who are officially sponsored and funded by the government. I think the official transmigration program ended several years ago, although to the local Papuan population, the perceived problems associated with either are very similar. Arjuna 01:21, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Dear Nil Einne, which area of Indonesia is "not in any risk of breaking away"? Aceh, Borneo, Celebes, West Java, Bali, the Moluccas, and Papua have all attempted to break away, have independence movements and most have attempted outright revolt. Seeming the Indonesian Foreign Minister in 1969 stated 5,000 troops were both unnecessary and too heavy a burden on West Papua's economy, what are 50,000 troops doing there now? Are you sure that Indonesia is not a colonial power?211.30.222.139 14:12, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I think you are either exagerating or have a very limited understanding of Indonesia. Seperatism to some extent exists in Aceh and Papua, but where does it exist in Sulawesi, West Java, Bali, Maluku, and Kalimantan (ie, the Indonesian part of the island of Borneo)? Or at least in any significance - I am sure you could find someone somewhere who wants to secede, but it is not likely that they pose "a risk of breaking away". YEs, there have been seperatist movements in Maluku and Sulawesi but they have no current significance anymore, and the level of their support even at the time was by no means universal. --Merbabu 14:10, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Failed Good Article Nomination

This is a well written article, but I cannot pass it because of the lack of referenses. Although there are a couple at the bottom, they cover very little of what the article actually talks about. See WP:CITE and WP:RS.--Konstable 01:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

The article makes some fairly serious claims about the Indonesian armed forces that really should be backed up by references or removed. To say that there are claims they are still committing genocide implies that there was a time when they definitely were committing genocide.
I think I'll put up some "citation needed" tags for a while and if nothing comes through, I'll "be bold" in my editing of this piece. Ordinary Person 05:03, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

See my comments on your talk page. Arjuna 09:36, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, Arjuna. I removed the word "still". The assylum seekers claimed that genocide was taking place. Adding the word "still" implies that genocide has previously taken place. Ordinary Person 01:04, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Before you remove the word "still" - perhaps you can provide any creditable source claiming genocide has not been conducted in West Papua since 1966? Bombing highland villages with Mitchell bombers might not be a subtle as the more recent importing of inflected prostitutes into the region, but it still did suggest a government desire to eliminate the Papuan race.

[edit] Two articles?

WHat is the logic behind having two pages for Western New Guinea and Papua? Are they not the same place?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Merbabu (talk • contribs).

While there's some legal uncertainty, there are officially 2 provinces in western New Guinea: Papua Province and West Irian Jaya Province. Wantok 05:44, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

It would be useful to develop a bibliography of the most common and easily available sources, in English, Dutch and Indonesian. This would probably involve a separate section entitled 'bibliography'. I would be prepared to assist. David Neilson (davidjneilson@bigpond.com)

[edit] WNG - proper noun?

Western New Guinea is not a proper noun, is it? So in the middle of a sentence it should be "western New Guinea", without "western" capitalised, right? Currently the article is inconsistent - and the map caption has a 3rd form, "West New Guinea". Nurg 01:53, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

You could be correct on both counts, I don't know for sure. --Merbabu 06:33, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it s hould be "western New Guinea". john k 19:11, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree: western New Guinea. Arjuna 19:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Sounds logical, but we should use what is most widely accepted and reliably referenced. We shoudn't create our own standards no matter how sensible they seem. Merbabu 02:13, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright violation

This (already reverted) edit was copied from Fox Country Watch. There were two other edits by the same IP address that might need removing as well: 1, 2. -- Ngio 23:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flags

Does anyone have artwork of any Province flags of West Irian (1963-1973) or Irian Jaya (1973-2000)?58.107.15.245 16:54, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citations

Somebody has removed the two References to page 45 and 46 of the 1961 United Nations Report (Chapter 2 "The Economic Situation", Section E "Mining"); as these two pages carry the previously requested reference for "Mining Enterprises" and for Mineral exploration "Work Done" visa ongoing Dutch/Papuan efforts to locate the gold a year after the Wilson expedition reported Ertsberg's rich gold deposits to Freeport's executives in New York; it does not seem valid to remove the references about a mine which is is claimed to be one of the world's largest and to occupy over 26 thousand square kilometres. As Indonesia's largest single tax payer, what is the extent of Freeport's impact on West New Guinea? Does anyone know if Freeport has increased its capacity since having its insurance got cancelled in 1995 for exceeding its maximum 50,000 ton daily capacity? Does anyone know what the company is intending to do with the associated dumping area for their solids, now that the several square kilometres of broken rock is 250m high will they be expanding the area or building it higher, and what is the re-habitation plan they have for West New Guinea?58.107.15.245 18:16, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

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