Talk:West Coast offense
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[edit] Sections
We need 2 pages, or 2 sections, one for long, one for short
Bill Walsh's original west coast offense was a DEEP throwing offense. Greg Cook was not "weak-armed" but had one of the strongest arms people had ever seen. The short version of the West Coast offense was developed later, hence the name "WEST Coast" as opposed to "Mid-West Continental."
The long west coast offense was used by Mike Martz and the '99 Rams who loved calling 18-yard ins, and lots of streaks and deep posts/corners. Though the 90's Cowboys ran a lot, when they did pass they used the long west coast offense. The "Air Coryell" Chargers modelled the passing game on this strategy (Precise deep route running). Many teams have failed using the long version, like the Redskins, Chargers, and Dolphins. Blame Norv Turner.;)
Short West Coast offenses on the other hand are the more well known, and have been used by almost every team in some way. The '01-'02 Pats, Bucs and Raiders all utilized a "dink-and-dunk" offense that was even shorter than Walsh had in mind. The Green Bay Packers and New York Jets have used the more classical Walsh West Coast offense, with medium-range passes and stretching the field to keep the defense honest. The Bills (2000), Falcons (2004), Lions (2003-present), Seahawks (99-present), have also used this kind of offense.
So basically, there should be two sections. (preceding unsigned comment by 24.103.99.189 (talk • contribs) )
[edit] Weak-armed?
Aside from "Bill Walsh's original west coast offense was a DEEP throwing offense. Greg Cook was not "weak-armed" but had one of the strongest arms people had ever seen." It sounds like you're talking more about variants of the west coast offense than the development of it, I beleive that information should be in a split-off article "Variants of the west coast offense" that is linked too as a "See Also: Variants of the west coast offense". Feel free to hit my talk page if theres anything you feel you could have me do. Mithotyn 00:00, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Offense name
Why don't we call it what it is on the coaches who developed the offense rather than attaching the media created moniker... The "Bill Walsh" offense is a descendant of the "Gillman/Coryell" offense. (Coryell added a streamlining number based play calling system to Gillman's offense) and also takes into account the short passing game of the Cleveland Browns of the 1950s with Otto Graham. I would rather throw the term "West Coast" out the window it is an erroneous label. The 49ers long history with the Walsh offense will end in 2006 - they just hired Norv Turner who runs the Gillman/Coryell offense. IT is easier to remember than the vague "West Coast" term.
[edit] Conflict
The Bill Walsh page says he perfected WCO, yet this page says it's got little to do with the 49ers, choosing instead to mention the Bengals first. Question: If the 49ers had remained at the bottom of the league and Walsh fired after a few years of failure ... would the WCO have spread?
Maybe the writing here could be improved:
"In American football, the term "West Coast Offense" is an offensive-minded strategic system of play."
It's called the WC Offense, so we may not need to be told that it's about offense. And since any sytem of play is strategic (a strategy), the last bit adds very little.
And I read this:
"Intrinsically, it is designed to be high-scoring with a great deal of yardage accumulated, a near opposite to Walsh's approach."
I wonder, did SF accumulate lots of yards and high scores?
Brainhell 05:03, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] =
Regardless of the confusion with the origin, when almost anyone says "West Coast Offense" these days, they mean the 80s 49ers walsh offense.
It might be useful to have a list of west coast offense coaches, or even a "tree"... Walsh, Holmgren, Reid, Gruden, etc...
Another useful note is that yes, Greg Cook was a terrific deep thrower and instrumental in the long downfield offense that was originally called west. But Cook got hurt early in his career and onl played sporadically after that. Replacing him was Ken Anderson, who didn't have the arm Cook had. Walsh modified his offense to suit what Anderson could do. He managed to have both Cook and Anderson lead the league in passing, but with completely different styles...
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I disagree with the above....
It wasn't Ken Anderson that Walsh worked with after the injury to Greg Cook. It was Virgil Carter (and its verifiable through the West Coast Offense site, ESPN's story on the West Coast Offense). Anderson came a little bit later than that. This move from Cook to Carter came around 1969/1970. Anderson was not the successor it was more mobile less strong armed Virgil Carter. (Note: Do a Yahoo search of Bill Walsh & Virgil Carter combined - and you will find the real story).
[edit] Whew
Walsh was never a direct protegee of Gillman. Zimmerman's point is that there are two separate trees, the Gillman/Coryell ("True" WCO--Downfield Stretching) and the Brown/Walsh (I'm sure many would include Stram), which is the "popular conception" of WCO (Short Stretching). A lot of this article blurs the distinctions.--Son of Somebody 15:24, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
