Talk:Wayne, New Jersey

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was not to move this page from Wayne Township, New Jersey to Wayne, New Jersey

This town is rarely referred to with its form of government in the name. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 19:26, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

• Support. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 19:26, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
• Support. I have been in Wayne many times and have never heard it referred to with "Township" in the name. It's pretty unusual in northern New Jersey. A visit to the municipality's web site shows that other than as a formality, it's called "Wayne." Alansohn 20:37, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
• Googlewar results: --ChrisRuvolo (t) 03:04, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
  • "wayne" "new jersey": 9,060,000
  • "wayne township" "new jersey": 33,900
• Oppose. Isn't the article suppose to be at the correct name for the place? What does Census use? Reading the townships web site you could decide that it should be renamed to Township of Wayne since that is the name in the top left of the home page. Redirects are cheap and don't hurt. Vegaswikian 00:22, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
  • See Township (New Jersey). Township is the form of government, like Borough (New Jersey), etc. Some townships use "Township" in their name, either for historical reasons or to disambiguate the name. Since there is no consistent naming scheme, each township requires some auditing to move them to their correct name, either "Foo, New Jersey" or "Foo Township, New Jersey". Local knowledge is required. The U.S. Census Bureau, with no consistent mechanism to follow for whether "Township" should be in the name, has created a system of overlapping CDPs. The CDP name is without the "Township" in the title, and this is duplicated by the name "Township" with township. Ram-Man/Rambot created articles for both the CDP and township. Compare the initial article creation edits by Ram-Man (t·c): [1] [2]. Note that the numbers are identical. As for whether to use the formal name or not, there is no precedence to do so. Other articles have at most a redirect, see for example City of New York. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 17:15, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
    • I'll rest my case on the fact that the offical web site is www.waynetownship.com. Both Wayne Township and Township of Wayne are used in the article. Other goverment agencies use township when discussing Wayne. What harm is caused by leaving the article at the formal name and using redirects for other variations of the name? I'm a Jersey native and while I was there we used both Wayne and Wayne Township to refer to the place. People did not get confused and I suspect that most knew the version that included township was the correct name and just used the shorthand in normal conversations. Vegaswikian 00:11, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
      • By that reasoning Paramus, New Jersey should be moved to Paramus Borough, New Jersey. The form of government is not part of the name of the place. If the government of Paramus changes to a city, does that mean that the name of the place (and thus the article) should change? Quite silly. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 03:18, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
        • Actually the name on the web site is Borough of Paramus. It's not an issue of what the type of government is, but what is the legal name of the town. The request appears to be changing the name from the formal one to the common one. That is what I objected to. Vegaswikian 03:47, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
          • First, using the formal name is not the convention. No other articles are at the formal name. Second, "Township of Wayne" may be the formal name, but "Wayne Township" is not. It is a hack that was instituted by the Census because they are never sure about how to name townships in NJ. The place is most commonly called "Wayne" and should be moved there. To compare real places with township in the name, see the USPS city/town zip code lookup. [3] "Wayne" "NJ" has results. "Wayne Township" does not. "Township of Wayne" does not. Compare this to "Washington Township" and "Township of Washington" which both have results, because people actually call the place that name. Note that more pages link to "Wayne" than "Wayne Township" — and of the places that link to "Wayne Township", about half link like this: [[Wayne Township, New Jersey|Wayne, New Jersey]]. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 14:50, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
            • Not likely that two people are going to resolve this. As a suggestion, maybe asking the question on the Village pump (policy) page might get a better response and a solution. Vegaswikian 22:43, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Sorry to butt into your back and forth, but let me put in my two cents based on practical experience. I've been looking at the page for Teaneck, New Jersey, my hometown. I am thoroughly familiar with New Jersey's types of government, and I know that Teaneck is a Township. There is a page for Teaneck Township, New Jersey that redirects to the Teaneck, New Jersey page. I am extremely careful to refer to Teaneck as a Township (not as a Town, which is different), both in the Teaneck article and in general. But no one refers to my hometown as "Teaneck Township" or the "Township of Teaneck" other than in a formal setting, such as a legal document, Township Council meeting or on a welcome sign. Sure, you'll see "Township" popping up on the http://www.TeaneckNJGov.org Town's website], but that's also a more formal document. Of course there will be redirects one way or the other, but the question is how do we decide on what the main page should be? Should it always be "Municipality, New Jersey" or ""Municipality GovernmentType, New Jersey" or even "GovernmentType of Municipality, New Jersey" ??? Though as I've said before, I've never heard anyone call it "Wayne Township" in all my years in New Jersey, but it's always "Washington Township" and never just plain "Washington." And this is exactly how it appears on the http://www.usps.gov lookup, where the only post office in Bergen County, New Jersey with a formal name was the "Township of Washington" Let's take this discussion to WP:NJ and get out of Wayne. The traffic around the Willowbrook Mall is killing me. Alansohn 23:22, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Throwing in my two cents as a local: Wayne comes up relatively frequently in the media because of flooding. In those news reports, I've never, ever heard reporters refer to this municipality as Wayne Township. In addition, the municipality may officially call itself the "Township of Wayne" or "Wayne Township," but they don't seem to use this nomenclature on their welcome signs: [4] Darkcore 02:38, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I've removed the move tag for now, since there appears to be no consensus on moving this article. Should this change, feel free to add a new request to Wikipedia:Requested moves. —Cleared as filed. 23:04, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move all three.

Details/vote/discuss at Talk:Little Falls Township, New Jersey. Please do not comment regarding the move here, as this is one of three articles included in this move proposal, and the WP:Requested moves information is included on the abovementioned page. //MrD9 01:06, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.