User talk:Waitak/Archive

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how did you know i was a high school kid? T_T 24.107.176.136 17:08, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Plants For A Future 2 Xaphoon 3 Teaming up 4 Category:Underutilized crops 5 Joint venture 6 blanking 7 Welcome to the WikiProject 8 Beer question 9 Chinese Wikimedia Conference 2006 10 List of Vegetable oils 11 H5N1 12 Novial language 13 Establishment of The Wikimedia Hong Kong 14 I'm red-green color blind 15 list of veg oils 16 Sanoussi Diakité 17 Chinese 18 Maya Nut 19 shifting cultivation 20 Drumstick (fruit) revert 21 Clove leaf oil 22 Vegetable oils/languages 23 Indonesians in the Philippines 24 Fusarium 25 vegetable-oil-stub 26 Identification of the varieties of Chinese 27 Ben oil user link -> external link 28 Black currant or blackcurrant 29 H5N1 cases template 30 Agriculture and alleviating poverty 31 aw, thanks 32 thanks from me, too 33 Uhu 34 vegetable oils 35 got as far as meadowfoam 36 still on it... 37 Re: H5N1 vandalism 38 OK your turn 39 Poll 40 List of vegetable oils 41 Macerated oils 42 Vegetable oil section template 43 Vegetable oil versus REAL Vegetable oil 44 Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot

[edit] Plants For A Future

Thanks for updating the plants for a future info, I fixed things a little bit. As you can see from my user name I'm involved in the project, drop by if you want to chat. --Pfafrich (talk) 15:32, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Xaphoon

Hi! I've responded at the Discussion page for Xaphoon. Badagnani 07:21, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Teaming up

Hi, I have to run right now. I may be on tommorow or I may be back onine in two weeks. Not shure atm. But yes, teaming up would be a good idea as we both cover the same basic material. Talk to you later Brimba 18:18, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Underutilized crops

Good job on expanding the description on the category page. I hadn't been monitoring it, but I see it survived the CfD vote; despite my vote, I'm happy with this outcome now that there is such a nice description, and good links, on the cat page. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 20:40, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Joint venture

Hi Waitak, if you would, please drop me a line at brimbawiki at yahoo dot com. Then perhaps we can collaborate a little, as I seem to be getting more computer time lately. Thanks, Brimba 20:59, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has been reverted or removed undone by an automated bot. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please contact the bot owner // Tawkerbot2 14:01, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] blanking

It would have been better to slap a speedy deletion tag on it. See WP:CSD#General. The appropriate tag in this case would be {{db-g7}}, also known as {{db-author}}. — Mar. 15, '06 [14:30] <freakofnur_xture|talk>

Thanks much for the advise. For the record, I actually did go through the docs, but wasn't able to figure out what to do. Blanking the article was done after I noted that another author had done this to get rid of an article. Waitak 14:34, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome to the WikiProject

Good to have you on board! -- Singkong2005 14:44, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

You have an interesting user page. What do you think of Globish or Basic English as an alternative to such languages as Ido? It seems to me to be far more likely to be useful. (not trying to pick an argument, I've just never talked with an advocate of such languages).

Alternatively, promoting the learning of languages by people around the world would achieve much the same ends, but with a greater respect and appreciation for various non-English speaking cultures. But it would have to be done properly, not the way it's currently done in schools. --Singkong2005 15:41, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I went through a period of evaluating Basic English as an alternative. I have a Basic English Bible, for example. What I came to is: Basic English put all of the burden on the writer (because it's pretty much only for written communication). It's hard to write Basic English. On the other hand, a fluent reader of English finds it perfectly reasonable, as does somebody who's learned to read it. But what happens next? If one of the gazillion people who understand it, but don't realize what the limits are, chooses to respond, it's not Basic English anymore. I just don't see the point. Esperanto (or Ido), on the other hand, is at least as easy to learn as the set of limitations you have to embrace to write Basic English, and is just as easy to learn to read as to write. - Waitak 13:03, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I would imagine it's less hard to do a fair job of writing Basic English, than to do a fair job of learning a new (artificial) language. And more people will understand it. Another issue for me personally is that I love learning about culture, and language is an important part of that. I will always make an effort to learn the local language, wherever I go. Most people don't do this, but with good language teaching, starting at school, it might be do-able. One day I may have time to contribute to the Wikibooks (and maybe Wikiversity) modules on language. Personally I think most people could learn much more quickly and effectively with proper teaching methods (teaching people how to learn a language, and using immersion where possible).

Probably the closest thing to a successful artificial language is the Indonesian language - but even that reflects Indonesian culture quite strongly, especially in the informal spoken form.

Anyhow, we'll probably continue to hold different views, but they're interesting things to think about. --Singkong2005 14:27, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beer question

It has been suggested by User:BrianSmithson and supported by User:Syrthiss that the Beer and brewery categories should be renamed. This proposal has been supported and expanded by myself. The notion is that the regional categories should follow the format of "Beer and breweries in Africa" /Europe/Asia/North America/South America/Oceania. "Brewers and breweries" could also be renamed "Beer and breweries by region". And all the countries should also be renamed (and merged if needed) as, for example, "Beer and breweries of Germany", "Beer and breweries of Britain", "Beer and breweries of Poland". The word in each case would be beer rather than beers to allow for general articles on beer culture in each region as well as individual beers.

Comments, suggestions, objections, free beer and simple votes to Wiki Beer Project SilkTork 15:29, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese Wikimedia Conference 2006

All Hong Kong Wikipedians are cordially invited to come and help the preparation of Chinese Wikimedia Conference 2006 * Hong Kong Taskforce(In Chinese)! Will you join?

*Official name has not yet confirmed -- Alfred.Yeung 05:59, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of Vegetable oils

• Issue 1. You need to have some criterion for inclusion. I don't think there is *any* vegetable that is entirely fat-free. Some, like potatoes, have little enough that they are allowed to state zero grams fat, but they still have *some* fat. If you don't have criteria for inclusion, you have "List of vegetables" instead of "List of vegetable oils"

• Issue 2. I don't think "vegetable oil" is a particularly good classification. Divide up the list into "edible oils" (which would include animal source oils like bacon drippings or ghee), "essential oils", "biofuel oils", and I think the lists are going to be of more value to encyclopedia users.

• Issue 3. Palm stearin isn't the only stearin out there - and none of them are oils. Oils are triglycerides, and stearin is an ester.

• Issue 4. Encyclopedia articles ought to have "meatier" content than shopping lists. A list of the men who have walked on the moon is useful information. A table showing the name, the year they went, how many days they spent on the moon, their hometown, and their age gives users a whole lot more to sink their teeth into. We see context, and we see actual men instead of simply names. Similarly, if you were to create a table instead of a list, you could show the average molecular weight of the oil, the viscosity, the countries were it is produced in commercial quantities, the annual production in weight, the annual production in dollars. Yes, it's a lot more work - but when you get done, you have something you can really be proud of. I think the page would also be more stable.

The List of ethnic groups seems to be edited ten times a day. It's not really an edit war, in that the same people are reverting back and forth, but everybody that comes to the page thinks, "Oh, they haven't got such-and-so on the list; I'll add it." Then a little later, someone else comes along, sees a group on the list and thinks, well, they would really rather be called the DEF instead of the ABC, and he edits the page. A little later someone says "Hey, this may be a group, but it's not an *ethnic* group" and he removes something. A little later someone says, "Gee, people are going to look for ABC and not find it because that group is called the DEF; I ought to change that." Well-meaning, but it's constantly changing.

If you use a table that has a lot of information, people may be less likely to make casual, meaningless changes - and that they will help fill in the missing gaps.

Gee. Now, aren't you sorry you asked for my suggestions on structure? :) I've suddenly had a sheaf of stuff dumped in my lap, and I've had to curtail my wikipedia activities, so I can't help you much. And I think I'd like to start an Oral History wiki, one where "Original Research" is not prohibited, but is the whole point of it. You would go to the Mallomar article, and read others' reminisces, and add your own. Standard wiki software isn't really appropriate; you probably don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry editing Bill's memories. You'd want an auto-wiki function that would looks through the database of article titles, so that Bill doesn't need to do anything to have his reference to Snickers lead to the Snickers page. I wish I was a cat; I need nine lives to accomplish everything I'd like to do. ClairSamoht 15:06, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Not sorry at all! This is just the sort of feedback I was hoping for, thank you. I'm very willing to structure the list, but am not qualified to decide on what structure is appropriate. I think that you've given me enough to work with. Thanks! Waitak 00:58, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I was trying to tell you that you were on a fool's mission, that "List of Vegetable Oils" was going to be an article nobody would understand, nobody would find of use, and nobody would honor in terms of maintaining the original vision. But did you listen? Noooooooo! And like some damned fool kid, you were stupid enough to turn it into an excellent article. Now aren't you ashamed of making me look foolish when I told you to abandon all hope of ever making the page worthy of disk space in an era of $1/gig hard drives? Nice work. I mean *really* nice work. I'm probably going to be the only one who ever realizes what kind of heroic effort you've put into that article, and this is probably going to be the only compliment you ever receive on it, so I'd award you a Woody Allen star, if one existed. ("I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it through not dying." - Woody Allen) ClairSamoht 14:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] H5N1

Thank you very much for helping out with the H5N1 series of articles. A recent published review by nonwikipedians said it was "too text oriented", so informative images are just what is needed. What would really be great would be a graphic illustrating the evolution of geneotype z influenza virus A(H5N1) or the molecular evolution of the H5 protein (links to images and data about the evolution right before our eyes of both can be easily found in the further reading section of H5N1 genetic structure. WAS 4.250 16:34, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Novial language

Quote: Novial sounds interesting. Roughly how many speakers would you say there are? End quote.

Hi,

we don't have figures but going on internet data probably one or two dozen have a fair knowledge. It's very easy for speakers of West European languages - easier than Esperanto certainly, on grammatical and lexical grounds. Possibly easier than Ido, at least in some respects, and the lexicon is more "natural".

I'm in the middle of improving the Novial article and making a new article, Esperanto and Novial compared. Later I hope to write similar pages comparing it with Ido and IALA Interlingua.

There is also a Wikibook for learners of Novial: Novial Wikibook.

I am trying to propogate interest in Novial. It is not so well known but after studying IALA Interlingua and Esperanto and Novial in that order I realised that Novial provides an excellent balance between "naturalism" and easiness (from a West European perspective of course).

If you like Novial please vote to support a Wikipedia in Novial here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Non-natural#Novial_.2816_support.2C_3_oppose.2C_2_neutral.29

A test Wikipedia in Novial is already up and running and has over 100 articles (Biology is the best category at the moment). http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/nov/

Thanks for your interest. Nov ialiste 08:49, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Establishment of The Wikimedia Hong Kong

[edit] I'm red-green color blind

You say "The red curve represents an exponential regression". The top one looks red to me. What colors do you see for the top line and the other line? WAS 4.250 16:16, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] list of veg oils

I agree it should go in. The clean up will sort some of the lists and if you think a coul ple of dozen or so of the listed oils are good, feel free to tag them.--BozMo talk 10:51, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sanoussi Diakité

Just spotted the article you created, Sanoussi Diakité - good stuff. As this is the main article for the sheller, I've also added Category:Appropriate technology - not the ideal solution perhaps but it'll do for now. --Singkong2005 03:48, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese

Thank you for your kind words. =) To be honest, I find the entire issue somewhat overblown... who *cares* really if something is a "language" or a "dialect", it's just semantics really. But if people want to sweat over it I suppose there's nothing we can do about it.. -- ran (talk) 15:50, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Maya Nut

Hi Waitak, though you might be interested in Maya Nut which was used by the Mayan civilisation as a staple food. Since then it has been neglected but its now being rediscovered.

p.s. I tried to reply to your email re the PFAF wiki but it bounced for some reason, I'll try again. --Salix alba (talk) 19:30, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Nice find! Thanks! I'll check into the email issues. Waitak 00:54, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] shifting cultivation

i didnt create this article, but am trying to improve it in small ways. i wikified intro. will get back to other parts later in the summer. by the way with your knowledge, i hope you will assist with ethanol fuel, an important article that needs some help. best regards Covalent 12:37, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

thanks for the words of encouragement w on the article talk page. i just hope we can improve the articles themselves...im working at it :) best regards Covalent 05:49, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Drumstick (fruit) revert

No probs. Great work with the Moringa oleifera article, by the way. Cheers -- Samir धर्म 05:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clove leaf oil

It was redirecting to Clove (if I recall correctly), and that seemed a reasonable redirect, so I kept it. Cheers. --Fang Aili ^talk 14:19, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I missed the fact that you were the only author. My apologies. Article deleted. --Fang Aili ^talk 14:33, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

This was basically my bad. I suppose next time you could put in the edit summary "Author's request - (reason why you want it deleted)", and that may raise another flag. You used the {{db-author}}, which was perfect; I just missed it. (Too many speedy deletes! :) --Fang Aili ^talk 14:56, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vegetable oils/languages

How nice to run into you again. Your user page is quite interesting. What are you playing on the xaphoon these days? A vegetable oil category exclusive of cooking oils seems welcome though "vegetable" is misleading--some use it to describe soybean (and related "cheap") oils like sunflower, safflower, corn, etc.); actually they're usually nut and seed oils, or "plant" oils. The only problem might be the fact that many users don't like categories that overlap rather than be hierarchical or mutually exclusive. Vegetable oils and cooking oils might be something like a very strongly overlapping Venn diagram. I'm not sure I've made very many articles on small languages though I've done some on small ethnic groups (many of which don't have their own language articles yet). Glad you found something interesting there. Are you in Asia now? I study Asian music (particularly Chinese) so would be interested to know more about the scene there. There's an instrument called the houguan which is commonly used in Cantonese music that sounds quite like the xaphoon. Badagnani 08:10, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I hadn't known about P3 but it seems like a great project. The income disparities between the top languages are a shock. It seems difficult to see all the languages as one seems to have to see them 10 at a time. Badagnani 08:22, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

You can see a houguan here: http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/1702/2005-5-3/121@232895.htm -- and also here: Guan (instrument). "Guan" means "pipe" or "tube" in Chinese and "houguan" is the Cantonese version, made of bamboo. The northern "guanzi" is made of hardwood and can overblow a couple of octaves whereas the Cantonese one is more similar to the Tang Dynasty instrument which could only play an octave, and has a mellower sound. Badagnani 08:25, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Why isn't linseed oil categorized as a vegetable oil but just under "oils"? It is listed in the List of vegetable oils article so I presume it is one, though not generally considered to be edible. Badagnani 08:26, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Ha ha! I don't think I have enough expertise. I think you are clearly the sensei of oils here (at least as far as English Wikipedia goes). Amazing how this website creates its own worldwide culture. Badagnani 08:30, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Indonesians in the Philippines

It appears that you deleted my comments and vote on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Indonesians in the Philippines. May I ask why? Waitak 16:56, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi! I didn't meant to delete your comments on purpose. It might have been accidentally deleted due to numerous 'edit conflicts' in Wikipedia.. :) --User:Matthewprc

[edit] Fusarium

I think you must be misreading the edit history. My only contribution was this. Soo 13:45, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, yeah. Hmm. No, I really have no idea why I did that, although presumably I thought it was true at the time. Might be worth checking it out before removing it. Soo 15:03, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

The source for the claim on fusarium is probably this [1]. If there is no confirmation, it may be another of EB's mistakes. Rmhermen 20:00, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] vegetable-oil-stub

I could create it for you if you wish, or if you prefer you could have a go at doing it yourself, and I could look it over and fix it up afterwards, as necessary. (See one, do one, teach one, as per the ER mantra...) Alai 17:02, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Identification of the varieties of Chinese

Hi Waitak, sorry about this but I must have missed your message from about a month ago. Thanks for your kind words =). I created that article because I wanted to have a centralized location for the entire discussion that Wikipedia articles can link to, and I was hoping that all of the nuances and implications of the debate can be contained in one place. I probably made it a bit convoluted, though and so feel free to improve it if you prefer.

Thanks! =) -- ran (talk) 21:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ben oil user link -> external link

I changed the user link to an external format link because article links should go to other encyclopedia articles (imho). It might be suprising to a reader to see a normal-styled link to a person, click on it expecting an encyclopedia article on that person, but get a user page instead. --Gnewf 15:42, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Other readers of the Ben oil article will know that he was the translator by looking at the talk page (linking editors from the article namespace is generally not a good idea). But if you want to recognize his work, you could give him a barnstar, for example, The Rosetta Barnstar, and he could mention it on his userpage. See Wikipedia:Barnstars. --Zoz (t) 12:13, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Black currant or blackcurrant

The ageed wikipedia spelling seems to be blackcurrant, see Ribes nigrum. Maybe black currant is a US spelling? Regards, Mr Stephen 13:13, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

That was fast! I was going to say that I don't have a strong opinion on the matter, but the single word seems to be the standard here. Regards, Mr Stephen 13:28, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] H5N1 cases template

No problem. Practice makes perfect, right? Awolf002 15:17, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

That looks very good. Thanks for your work! Awolf002 12:42, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Agriculture and alleviating poverty

Well, I'm interested in the subject, but not sure how much I could really add. SB Johnny 09:44, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] aw, thanks

...for your comment vis a vis False flax oil. Curious about a source, though; I've got a book (Food Lover's Companion) that says that canola is another name for rapeseed oil, not a variety of same. You seem an expert... comment? Graham 00:20, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Canola oil is rapeseed oil, but rapeseed oil isn't necessary canola oil. They developed a cultivar of rape, I think it was in the 1970s, that has low ecruic acid levels, and once they got the US to approve the new name (canola is CANadian OiL), it only took about 2-3 years before farmers were growing large quantities. I can't see women buying rape oil. Even if they know better, it sounds like an antisocial alternative to KY jelly.

If I recall correctly, regular rape oil is a drying oil, mostly used industrially, perhaps in some specialty paints. It's toxic, but I don't know *how* toxic. (A lot of the foods we eat are toxic. Salt is a necessity, but a cup of salt would be lethal to half of all adults who ingest it.) ClairSamoht 13:47, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] thanks from me, too

Not much time on my hands these days, but when I see something that is wrong, I have a hard time leaving it alone. Not a desirable character trait, I'll have you know. They say dentists and computer programmers have a high suicide rate, but I suspect copyeditors, proofreaders, and fact checkers probably have a high rate of getting murdered. God knows the SOBs deserve it.... (I see that you've been busy. And you can take the fact that you don't see my edits very often as a HIGH compliment.) ClairSamoht 13:47, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Uhu

It appears you have made Uhu redirect to Parrot Fish. Which is a bit strange if you're looking up Uhu, the well-known British glue. Apparently Uhu is also the name of a well-known German Owl! (don't ask me!) The redirect to Parrot Fish also breaks the rules on redirection - by the redirection rules Uhu should at least be mentioned in the first paragraph or two of Parrotfish (and isn't currently mentioned at all). Quirkie 18:46, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] vegetable oils

Sure thing... let me just get the babt to sleep. Gimme an hour or so. Graham 23:03, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

P.S Is this how discussions are normally carried out — page to page? I'm a bit of a newbie at this. g.

Wow! Nice work (and a lot of it) on the Veg oil list! Sjschen 15:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] got as far as meadowfoam

And now I really want to clean up the mustard section. (So many people confuse the "mustard family" with the "mustard plant" with the "mustard seed"!) However, the mustard (plant) article has been nominated for merging... can I just go ahead and merge/redirect it, or do I have to wait for the discussion to come to a conclusion? Thanks for any advice. Graham 23:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] still on it...

Gotta take a quick break, but I'm still looking through. You'll notice that I'm adding "fatty acids" to the omega-3 and omega-6 references; I don't think they should stand alone. Hope that works for you. Graham 02:07, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: H5N1 vandalism

I gave out T2 because the vandalism looked pretty serious to me at the time, but if you feel T1 would be better I do not mind you replacing it with T1. Though please subst the template, many thanks. --WinHunter ^(talk) 13:40, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] OK your turn

I responded on my talk page and finished editing Transmission and infection of H5N1. Your turn. WAS 4.250 14:56, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Your turn again. WAS 4.250 14:13, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to improve Bird flu in India. WAS 4.250 14:34, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poll

Hi! Your vote/opinion on brewery notability is requested here: [2] SilkTork 12:28, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of vegetable oils

You're welcome! Yes, I'd originally spotted it through featured list candidates - I've just added my support vote. Good work. --OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 15:27, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Congrats! They said it couldn't be done (or at least "I" did, and you done it anyway. You've earned this attaboy! ClairSamoht 06:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Even though I opposed, congrats on the FLC. Regarding the crossfire you felt you were caught in, I think it was a misunderstanding. I've left a note about this on the FLC page. heqs 09:28, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Macerated oils

When I realized that you were using a variant spelling, I went in to change the link from Mascerated oils to Maceration, and I saw in the comments that you wanted a list of macerated oils. I've added one, although it needs references; I need to read up on how to use the cite tag.

Also, I didn't specify what the various macerated oils are used for, because I'm not sure what is the proper thing to do. These herbal preparations can be sold in the US only as foods, not as drugs, but it's done with a wink; in practice, it's the therapeutic use that people buy them for.

For instance, should we say that St. Johns Wort macerated oil is used for depression. If we do, should we also mention that a number of studies that say St. Johns Wort doesn't work at all for depression, and may be hazardous to your health?

Should we simply say that macerated oil is simply a delivery system for the herb, and let people follow the link to the herb, passing the buck, and letting those pages discuss whether the herb does what it's supposedly good for?

This is really a sticky wicket, as an edit war could quickly develop between True Believers and skeptics of herbal medicine. I'm disinclined to list the diagnoses for which the herb is used, since this is an oil page, not an herb page, but this is your baby, Waitak, and I defer "entirely" to your judgment. ClairSamoht 07:59, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vegetable oil section template

Looks nice. You've done a lot of work on that one.

I do some maintenance on cities pages, where there is an info box template at the top of the page and a template at the bottom of the page listing other cities in the state. As a user, I find the infobox far more useful; I rarely if ever click on the one at the bottom of the page.

The pages on oil need some sort of colorful graphic, to break up the vast gray expanses, but I'm thinking that an infobox might be more useful. Instead of linking to the Linden page on the various oil pages, you could link to a "Linden oil" page. That page would describe the uses of that oil, the commercial significance of the oil, and could use a nice infobox describing the oil's characteristics, such as viscosity, molecular weight, smoke point, etc.

But that kind of infobox doesn't seem very useful on the oil pages we currently have, and it requires the launching of a massive effort to generate all the individual oil pages. The information those pages require is NOT going to be easy to find. And if you have those pages, then you need *both* kinds of templates, and I think the infobox should be a vertical and the list of articles a horizontal template at the bottom. That doesn't solve the aesthetic problem of needing a graphic at the top of the existing pages.

So maybe I should have stopped talking at the end of the first paragraph here, and just said "looks nice"? :) ClairSamoht 14:48, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad that we're on the same wavelength. You're not planning to waste your time in the next few months on frivolities like eating, bathing, sleeping, etc., are you?

I hadn't thought about pictures for the sources. Nice touch, but that's going to be another pain. I found myself on istockphoto last night, giving them more money. When I write a blog entry, I almost always include a picture, because it makes *such* a difference in how the blog looks. It's not the buck per pic I pay istockphoto that annoys me, it's the fact that their site is so slow, and it takes me forever to find a picture that really goes with the blog entry. I suppose I should use the old bullseye trick - instead of shooting first and drawing the circles around the hole, I should find a nice pic and write a blog entry to match.

But in any case, it may be difficult to find suitable photography for a lot of these oils. I can shoot a picture of soybeans, no problem at all, but what about linden blossoms? I could have a linden tree across the street from me, and not know it. Having a couple of stock pictures that can be used when nothing is available, pics like the one in your sample, will be necessary, I'm afraid. But as time goes on, people will end up finding better pics and substitue them for the generic oil pics, I suppose. ClairSamoht 15:30, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vegetable oil versus REAL Vegetable oil

I've created a Vegetable oil disambiguation page. I still need to go through the Vegetable oil (fat) page (the old VO page) and strip out everything that isn't related to triglyceride-type vegetable fats, and move it to the essential oil or macerated oil pages. I also need to check for double-redirects from moving that page. I was hoping to get it done yet tonight, but it appears I better not if I don't want to learn more about divorce than I want to learn. Oh, well. I will probably get to it this afternoon. ClairSamoht 04:14, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Since you asked, I dislike the new name of the template. Axle grease is manufactured in a plant, and lard is rendered in a plant. The wikipedia Common Names policy says that the template should be named for vegetable oils. And I think you should change "pressed oils" to "vegetable fats" because most of them are produced these days by hexane extraction rather than being cold-pressed. You know, it would have been smarter for me to change that page from "Vegetable oil" to "Vegetable fats", and it would fit the Common Names policy better. ClairSamoht 17:43, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

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