Talk:W12 engine

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was don't move. —Nightstallion (?) 12:54, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

If there's a better way, anyone can feel free to fix, but I moved this to what I thought was a better title. A W12 is a specific type of 12 cylinder and a fairly new development. Friday (talk) 18:18, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

This appears to have lost the talk page history. In addition, it's at W12 engine instead of W12, and W12 still redirects to 12 Cylinder Engine. I think this whole merge-unmerge mess may need an administrator to clean up properly through a Requested Move or something. TomTheHand 18:24, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

• I have an issue with moving this to W12. Yes, most of the links to that page are for the engine. But W12 is also a camera and a postal code, a glider model and a loudspeaker. I'm sure that there are others. Vegaswikian 21:56, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
  • I do see what you're saying, and perhaps a disambiguation page might be in order. However, this page was at W12 yesterday, and was moved because of the whole W12/V12 merge fiasco. I believe it should be moved back there today. Perhaps a separate disambiguation page should be made with a "For other uses, see..." message at the top of the engine page. TomTheHand 22:26, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
    • A redirect should not be used when most people enter the term only to get sent to the wrong page and then have to select a dab article from that page. Given the number of potential meanings, I'm not sure that this article belongs at W12. If the W12 article should be the dab article, then leaving this article here is probably the correct action. If the consensus is to leave this here and put a dab article at W12, that can be done today. The hardest part would be fixing all of the article links. Vegaswikian 05:46, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
      • Alright, let's see what we can do about consensus on this issue. I think this article should move back to W12 where it was before and remain exactly as-is, with a link at the top to the London W12 postal district. This was considered fine before. I don't see any other Wikipedia articles that would be linked to from a disambiguation page. If there are some in the future, for the glider or loudspeaker, I would imagine they would be much less common searches than the engine. A separate disambiguation page should be created at W12 (disambiguation) and a {{Otheruses}} should be placed on the engine page to deal with that in the future. TomTheHand 13:06, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
      • I looked around a bit, and 67 pages link to the W12 engine but just 8 link to the postal district. In addition, the postal district article is a one-sentence stub. I really think the engine should be the main article, with a link to the postal district, exactly how it was before when nobody had a problem with it. TomTheHand 13:23, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
        • Remember the point that a dab page is prefered when not having the dab at the target causes users to get directed to the wrong page in a significant number of cases. Links in existing articles are far from the best measure of what users are entering and expecting when they enter W12. Maybe they are looking for the camera or something else. They get the article on the engine and figure that the pedia does not cover what they want. All I'm saying is that leaving this page here does not harm anything. We don't know that it is the most common useage. Two, three and even four character article titles are more likely to match names or acronyms for other things. Actually if you follow the majority of the articles in Piston engine configurations, like for straight or flat or X, then the name should be W-12. Vegaswikian 19:07, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
          • But if a user enters W12 and expects the camera, the encyclopedia doesn't cover what they want. There are only two W12 articles, the postal code and the engine, and the postal code is a one-sentence stub that is rarely linked and already linked to from the head of the engine page. Frankly, I can't imagine a much better case for not having a disambig. By your logic, disambiguation pages should always be used, because in spite of various bits of evidence, we don't REALLY know if users are being misdirected because we're not watching them. I'm just looking for a restoration of the status quo; this article was at W12 before and was not moved because of a disambiguation issue. Incidentally, you're incorrect about the names of other piston engine articles; the other V and W articles do not contain dashes. TomTheHand 19:26, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
            • I did not say that the '-' was used in the V and W engines, but that it is used in almost every other form. Having said that I should note that V-twin does use the dash as does Straight-twin and Flat-twin so adding a dash in the V series could be a logical followup. I should also point out that most of the links to the W12 article are from {{Piston engine configurations}} and a simple change in the template would eliminate most of those links. Other engine variations are likewise inconsistant like Slant Four and Slant-six. Vegaswikian 19:43, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
              • Adding a dash to the V series would completely go against real-world convention. The engine articles are named as they are because that is how they are actually addressed, not because of a desire for consistency. TomTheHand 19:48, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

The topic of this article is the W12 engine. So the article name is correct. When talking about engines, this engine is usually simply called the W12. But this is not an engine encyklopedia, so I prefer the long name. --Boivie 12:42, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.