Talk:Volvo Cars

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Contents 1 Safety 2 Marque status (luxury) 2.1 A compromise 3 Soccer mom status since 2003 4 Center Brakelights 5 Logo 6 RWD Volvo Images 7 Volvo Transmissions 8 Edit to model numbering section 9 VOLVO DEALERSHIP SATISFACTION

[edit] Safety

"Also the production of P1800 had to be stopped because it didn't fullfill US saftey standards." doesn't belong in the section about safety problems in the 90's.

But it belong somewhere under the "Safety" heading. Btw, R&T: Feds Look at Volvo Safety Issues. // Liftarn

Im very sceptical about parts of the Safety text. It looks like its written by s Volvo hater. Volvos still are among the safest cars you can buy and their built for real life collisions not to pass tests like most other car brands. Just look at the folksam "how safe is your car report" http://www.folksam.se/engelsk/trafik_eng/sakrabilar2005.pdf --Dahlis 21:10, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

The P1800 is a bit special so I don't dubt it had some security issues. Yes, Volvos are still quite safe, but they are indeed slipping. They are not the safest car you could buy (that's the SAAB 9-5). Some models had problems. // Liftarn

They are not slipping, they are slipping in the NCAP tests because the NCAP tests are no good. Volvos are alot more safe then Renaults for example. Renaults are built to beat the tests Volvos are built to be safe. --Dahlis 15:05, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

It is according to Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. Volvo have earlier done well on the same tests. Volvo still does OK[1], but they seem to have problems keeping up with advances in other models. SAABs are also built for real-world safety, but they get gold ratings. // Liftarn

[edit] Marque status (luxury)

The automotive press considers Volvo to be a luxury marque. A quick search for "Volvo luxury" will confirm this, or search for "Volvo" at any automotive news site (for example, Road & Track). User:WWC

I did a search for "Volvo luxury" at http://www.roadandtrack.com/ and it didn't produce a single result. I checked some of the results for "volvo", but none of them called Volvo "a luxury marque". I also looked at http://www.volvocars.us/ and it's only S80 and XC70 that are called "luxury". // LiftarnFor

Check edmunds.com or Ford's Annual Report. Want to apologize for being obnoxious with my remarks that you do not know anything about Automobiles. I go a little overboard sometimes. // -CarAnalyst

Nah, I don't think you were being obnoxious. I suggest signing your comments with ~~~~ Borisblue 02:47, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Please be more specific. For instance http://www.edmunds.com is a rather large site. Considering Volvo themselves only call S80 and XC70 "luxury", but not the other cars in the line up I don't think you can say the the brand itself is a luxury brand any more than for instance Audi or Volkswagen. // Liftarn

Volvo has different status in different markets. In Sweden, Volvo is regarded as a car for the "common people", and their main competitors are Saab, Ford, Opel, VW, Audi and Toyota. In the U.S., I guess Volvo has a more luxury status, competing with BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, Lincoln and Cadillac. In the U.K., the small Volvo 340 (developed by DAF in the Netherlands) was for a long time the most sold Volvo model, which obviously made the Volvo status much lower there, than it is in other markets. --Boivie 12:08, 6 October 2005 (UTC)--Boivie 11:57, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Good point. The brand image is ofcourse defferent in different markets. Ford may also want to position the brand in a certain segment. The interesting thing is that according to http://www.volvocars.us/ that is Volvo's US site it only labels S80 and XC70 as "luxury". With only two cars in the line up called luxury I don't think it can be applied to the entire brand. // Liftarn

As with BMW, Volvo started out as the car for the common folk but with time evolved into a luxury marque. There current line up all competes with other luxury marques.

XC90:Audi Q7, BMW X5, MB M-Class, Lexus RX, Infiniti FX, Cadillac SRX, Saab 9-7, Acura MDX

S80: Audi A6, BMW 5-Series, MB E-Class, Lexus GS, Infiniti M, Cadillac STS, Saab 9-5, Acura RL

S60: Audi A4, BMW 3-Series, MB C-Class, Lexus IS & ES, Infiniti G, Cadillac CTS, Saab 9-3, Acura TL

S40: Acura TSX, the S40 is considered an entry-level luxury sedan so it can compete with non-luxury marques but when one compares size and price it clearly provides that this car leans towards luxury. Also sales records show that people interested in this car also looked at other luxury marques.

Those who have access to MAG-Rack on Demand (Cable Service) also can see history of BMW and Volvo; it mentions their economical start to their rise to the luxury catergory.

Luxury Cars at edmunds.com: Scroll to to bottom an note entire Volvo line-up is listed. As for SUVs you will notice non-luxury marques listed because in the SUV catergory they are considered to beluxury yet overall the marque or its entire lineup is not considered luxury. [2] // -CarAnalyst

Then it should say something like "according to edmunds.com[3] Volvo's current line-up consists of luxury cars". By the way I noticed that Audi is also called "luxury", this is equally absurd. edmunds.com must have rather low requirements of luxury. I also noticed that actual luxury cars (Rolls-Royce, Bentley Bristol...) are notably absent from the list. // Liftarn

Liftarn, it is not absurd that Audi is considered luxury especially since they produce cars that are over $100,000. True luxury marques are Acura (US), Audi, BMW, Cadillac (US), Infiniti (US), Jaguar, Lexus (US & Pacific Rim), Lincoln (US), Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, Saab, and Volvo. As for Aston Martin, Bentley, Bugatti, Isotta Fraschini (defunct marque), Maybach, Rolls Royce are considered ultra-luxury marques. Daimler (UK) and Maserati are on the border line between luxury and ultra-luxury. Aston Martin, Porsche, Ferrari, and Lambo also fit into exotic catergory. Not to be rude, but really where do you get your car information or should I say is this your own opinion that Audi is not luxury because to me that sounds absurd? And I truly mean not to be rude or obnoxious but I would think that the average person would know Audi is a luxury marque. Any finance site including Bloomberg, Forbes, or even Yahoo finance can vouch this one. // CarAnalyst

A luxury car is a car that provides the ultimate in style and comfort. They are often (at least plartly) hand made and often they are also made according to customer specifications. What you call "luxury" I would call "premium". None of the marques you mentioned (Acura (Honda), Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti (Nissan), Jaguar, Lexus (Toyota), Lincoln, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, Saab, and Volvo) are marques I would call luxury, they are (with the exception of Porsche that's a sports car) premium marques. I don't think the average would find Audi, Volvo, Saab et.c. more a luxury marque than say Wolkswagen, Mitsubishi or Skoda. To take a detail, all of them have (unless you order one with special trim) plastic steering wheels. Unthinkable in a real luxury car. // Liftarn

I come from a European family that is both aristocratic and affluent and my entire life I have been driven in a chauffeured car. Most commonly these cars were Rolls-Royces. Mercedes-Benz, Audi, and BMW were the choice of our everyday cars because they were and are renowned for being a luxury automobile and above the average automobile. If you are to read any automobile magazine you will see that Audi is in the same class as BMW and Mercedes-Benz. A Mitsubishi is way below an Audi, no questions about it. Again not intending to be rude but I advise that you find a different subjects rather than automobiles to revise because your knowledge is very limited. And I apologize if that causes any offense to you because I truly to not intend it too. // CarAnalyst

Your personal experiences are original research and thus not useable. My dad have a Volvo S60 and while it's a nice car and probably above average it's still not a luxury car. It's quite simmilar to a Mutubishi Galant, VW Passat or Ford Mondeo. And just for fun I counted the cars on the parking lot. Seven Volvos, three Audis, two SAABs and there was also a BMW parked down the road. Gee, I must live in a really rich area because there are so many luxury cars parked here. ;-) I do find you rude and unless you manage to find some actual sources I will start ignoring you. I do read an occational automobile magazine and I'm a member of four different automobile clubs. I have never, as far as I can recall, seen Volvo being called a luxury marque. I don't think even the Volvo 164 or 264 was called luxury. I may read the wrong magazines. // Liftarn 07:37, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Liftarn, you continue to reject the notion that Volvo and Audi are luxury marques despite that edmunds.com states so. CarAndDriver, Road and Track, MotorTrends all refer to Volvo being a luxury marque. In December of 2002, the a ship, the Nicola en route to Germany collided with the Tricolor. The Tricolor was enroute to the United State loaded with Volvos, BMWS, and Saab. BBC had headlines saying Cargo Ship carrying luxury automobiles sinks. In fact a quote from the a different BBC article refers to the cars in this blurb "The Nicola began its journey to Germany after tugs pulled her clear of the Tricolor, which sank at the weekend with £30m of luxury cars on board. " Continuing with this reference to luxury they state "In addition to the £30m value of the BMWs, Volvos and Saabs on board, the Tricolor itself is worth about £25m. " Will you assume both BBC, Edmunds, and the Automobile Media are all wrong, Because I think not. Ford Motor Company defines Premier Auto Group, their subsidary which holds the Volvo marque as their luxury division. Mercedes-Benz who is reknowned for luxury compares their automobiles to Volvo among other luxury marques which you refuse to call luxury marques but call premium marques. Additionally Bloomingdale's a world reknowned luxury retailer based in the US, associates their name with only prestige. They advertised Audi and now Volvo in their catalogs and magazines. I can continue to to provide sources if need be but I feel like I have done my share. Do not get me wrong, Volvo is a luxury brand but some products are not always up to par with the sector. Yet by no means is a Volvo nor Audi in the same league as Mitsubishi. Out of curiosity what Volvo, BMW, and Audi models are in your neigborhood? //CarAnalyst

Is edmunds.com a reliable source? And as I've said above "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". So far edmunds.com is all you have come up with. I managed to find some info at BBC's site [4] and the cars are defined as "high-end BMWs and Saabs" so it's not just base models. Again, I'm not denying that some models may be defined as "luxury", but not the entire brand. Some Yugos were also high-end and there are cars like Nissan Fuga and Mazda Millenia, but that don't make Yugo, Nissan and Mazda luxury brands. The Volvos are almost the full spectrum. From the 240s (I have even seen a 140 at another parking lot) up to late S60s. The Audis are at least one Audi 100, the other I haven't check and can't identify right of. The BMWs are usually the 3-series and some in the 5-series. Ford says nothing about luxury[5]. // Liftarn

Volvo Cars of North America Inc. Company Profile

"Volvo Cars of North America is the sales, distribution, and marketing arm of Ford Motor's Volvo brand in the US and Canada. Volvo's range of models include the S-Range, the V-Range, the C-Range, and XC-Range. The S40 is Volvo's latest introduction, an entry level sports sedan priced under $25,000. The company also offers financing through Volvo Finance. Ford Motor purchased the Volvo automotive brand from Swedish truckmaker AB Volvo in 1999. Along with Aston Martin, Jaguar, and Land Rover, Volvo is part of Ford's Premier Automotive Group family of luxury brands." Quoted from finance.yahoo.com //CarAnalyst

Do you have a link? // Liftarn

Sorry, I forgot to post it last time. The link is [6] //CarAnalyst

"Volvo: On message

Thomas Andersson, executive vice president of marketing at Volvo Cars of North America Inc., says Volvo considers itself "the most effective spender, both in absolute dollars and per car, in the luxury segment."

Because Volvo's national marketing budget is small, Andersson says, it must concentrate on key products - such as its XC90 sport wagon - to establish a brand message. That message spills over to lesser-known vehicles when shoppers enter the showroom, he says.

Volvo's message of safety, family, environmental concern and Swedish cool is part of every element of its external image, including dealer ads. Sanfilippo says Volvo's marketing communications are among the best in the industry.

"Volvo's communications are aligned from the top down," he says. "The idea of what Volvo is about flows through all the way to the retail ads."" Taken from[7]

Additionally I spoke with representatives of Volvo cars and they refuted the fact of being competitors with Mitsubishi, Nissan, Peugeot, Renault, Subaru, Toyota, Vauxhall and VW in America and in all global markets. My corrections on the main page will reflect this. //CarAnalyst

Market fluff and unsubstantiated claims are no good. An anonymous person asking another anonymous person. That's not very verifiable. And car salesmen are not exactly known for their honesty. // Liftarn

This luxury or not discussion is not getting anywere. Cant you all just accept that cars that are considered luxury in one place is not in another. In some places even a beat up old vw bug is a luxury. Im swedish and volvos are pretty much the standard car here. To me they are not luxury, neither are BMW, AUDI, SAAB, Lexus. --Dahlis 18:16, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Dahlis, I totally agree with you. Yesterday I bought an '84 Volvo 244. Not really a luxury car, but still more luxury than VW, Toyota and Mitsubishi of that age. --Boivie 10:18, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, I'd say it's comparable with VW Passat and Audi 80 and probably less luxurious than a SAAB 900 but I may be biased in that respect. By the way, I recently saw a tv program where the new Passat was called a "volvo killer". // Liftarn

"Volvo remains one of the most profitable units of the Ford group's luxury car division, which also includes Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston Martin.

Nobody dubts and tha article cleary says that Volvo is placed in Ford's "luxury" group and that in the US it's marketed as a luxury car. // Liftarn

The weak performance of Ford's luxury brands, including Land Rover and Jaguar, has hurt the number two U.S. auto maker, which is struggling to reverse a sales decline that has prompted a sweeping restructuring." Cited from Yahoo Asia News [8] If you still dispute that Volvo is a luxury car manufacturer, feel free to contact their corporate offices. They will and can set the record straight for you. As Liftarn is constantly reverting the article to provide the statement "In the European market Volvo competes with brands such as Mitsubishi, Nissan, Peugeot, Renault, Subaru, Toyota, Vauxhall and Volkswagen;" I would like some factual information proving this. Volvo Cars nor does Ford validate this claim. The same holds true with all automotive sources both print and online. Where are you getting it from? This is purely point of view and is not accurate.

Stop reverting the article to your point of view. It is counter-productive to provide false information. As I stated before there is no where that validates your claims that Volvo competes with brands such as Mitsubishi, Nissan, Peugeot, Renault, Subaru, Toyota, etc.

Please stop reverting to put in your view. For instance VW Passat is often compared with Volvos.[9][10][11] or sometimes Nissan Maxima[12] or Honda Accord[13]. // Liftarn

First of all they are comparing the Volvo S40 (the entry-level) Volvo to Honda's flagship; the same applies with Nissan. You see these comparisons alot with brands such as Toyota, Nissan, and Honda compare their flagships with Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, and BMW's entry models. As far as the Volkwagen, they did a similar thing. They are comparing their top of the line, V8 to Volvo's inline 5 and inline 4. What a great comparision?...I think not. You neglect to phone Volvo's corporate office, and why you fail to do this I do not know? Even phone BMW and Mercedes-Benz. Ask to speak to someone in their finance office as well as their marketing office. They will completely state their competitors in the US and globally. You answer questions incompletely just to fit your argument; what about the statements from the Geneva Auto Show. Your arguement is inconclusive and you are clearly stating your point of view. I am kindly asking you to please stop; I do not understand why you are making this so difficult.

[edit] A compromise

I'm just some random person who added a pic to this article and it's been on my watchlist. I've watched this dispute with some dismay as it seems rather small beer. Is there no compromise possible? Why not just say that it's considered X in some markets and by some critics, Y in others, and Z in the rest, source the references that claim each thing and leave it to the reader to draw their conclusions as they would. Wouldn't that work? If not, why not? No offense, but revert wars are, in general, lame. ++Lar: t/c 14:58, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

The version I'm reverting to is a compromise verswion where it says Volvos are marketed as luxury cars in the US and as everyday cars in other markets. Obviously this compromise doesn't work because of this anonymous person keeps inserting the extraordinary claim that Volvo is a luxury brand. It may, just like Gevalia, be seen as luxury in some markets while not seen as luxury in others. // Liftarn

I completely agree and I am tired of this game Liftarn is playing. I intended my editing only to rectify incorrect information and provide that which is validated by the manufacturer and its competitors. Volvo Car Corporation holds the stance that they are a luxury marque in all markets, not just the United States. At this point I am going to just give up because it appears that it is getting reverted out of stubbornness to a claim which is not correct. //CarAnalyst

I think you miss the point. (and please sign with ~~~~... it makes things SO MUCH EASIER!!! I note you've been asked that before, right?). The point is not about you are right and he is not, he is stubborn and you are not, etc... or even just what the manufacturer says the product is. WP:NPOV means that all points of view (that can be sourced) should be accomodated. He has provided sourcing, so have you. The article should explain BOTH points of view, pointing to the sources to each. That way the reader can make up their own mind. Can I ask you to try to put together some text, here, that does that? Then maybe everyone can move on. Thanks! Happy editing! ++Lar: t/c 21:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I have checked Volvo sites. For instance http://www.volvocars.se/ says nothing about the cars being luxury cars (but it does mentions the V70's "luxurious comfort" (but then even Peugeot Partner is called "even more luxurious" in their ads)). At http://www.volvocars.us/ the S80 is called a "luxury sedan" and also the XC80 is called luxury. The rest of the model line up is not called "luxury" or "luxurious". At http://www.volvocars.us/_Tier2/WhyVolvo/ no mention of luxury is made. The state that their core values are "safety, environment and quality" (not luxury). They have a vision to become "the world's most desired and successful premium car brand"[14]. The problem is that nowhere does they say thet every Volvo is a luxury car. They have some cars in their line-up that are at least luxurious, but also basic, utility models like the V40. // Liftarn

Here is a portion of Ford's Annual Report Stating Volvo's competitors. This is showing them on a global scale and not just the United States. Note that 60% of Sales belong to Europe therefore competition favors European Sales. I do not see Peugeot on there anywhere. Liftarn, you neglect to actually contact Volvo's executive offices, yet I hope my posting above and edits to the page will suffice. This is my compromise, let me know if it is okay with you?--CarAnalyst 14:59, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Contacting them would be original research. http://www.ford.com/en/company/about/brands/volvo.htm does list BMW, Mercedes Benz, Audi and Lexus as major competitors. All those and more are already listed. I googled a bit and found some other stuff (emphasis added) "Major competitors for the S60 AWD include the BMW 325Xi/330Xi, Audi A4 1.8T/3.0, Jaguar X-Type 2.5/3.0, VW Passat 4Motion and Subaru Outback H6 3.0 AWD."[15]. // Liftarn

Just wondering if the changes made to the article page are okay with you?--CarAnalyst 15:48, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

"In economics, a luxury good is a good for which demand increases more than proportionally as income rises, contrast with inferior good and normal good. Luxury goods are said to have high income elasticity of demand: as people become more wealthy, they will buy more and more of the luxury good." That is a part from the article of Wikipedia referring to luxury goods.As an economist I confirm this explanation.Volvo,according to this definition,is considered a luxury brand as all its lineup,except for its premium sedan S40,is luxurious...

It is true that in Sweden Volvos are cars for common people but the Volvo prices are significantly lower there than other European countries...

[edit] Soccer mom status since 2003

See Volvo-Driving Soccer Mom and Friends episodes in Season 9. Many other similar references in pop culture.

[edit] Center Brakelights

In the mid-eighties, Volvo introduced the first central high-mounted stoplight (a brake light not shared with the rear taillights), which became federally mandated in the 1986 model year.

Can anyone verify the 1986 date? I thought the federal law came more recently. Plus, it seems unlikely to have been mandated so soon after introduction by a single manufacturer. Alcuin 02:58, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Keep in mind this law is American, and cars from elsewhere in the world may not have complied with U.S. regulations. Central high-mounted stop lamps were introduced on the 200-series cars in 1986. I'm not positive that was also the case for the 700-series cars, which was the only other type of car Volvo sold in the United States at the time. According to this page, they "have been standard equipment on all new passenger cars sold in the United States since model year 1986" and trucks since 1994 (explaining why my 1989 car has one but my dad's 1990 Nissan pickup truck doesn't), so I would guess that all Volvos gained the CHMSL in 1986. --69.242.193.68 01:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC) KeplerNiko

The 1986 date is listed in Automotive lighting, but there is no mention of Volvo. Peaceduck 20:16, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Logo

The Volvo logo is the male sign. Why is this? Anyone know? I want to, and I'd like the article to say! 129.78.208.4 09:43, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Its also the symbol of iron. And iron = strenght. Volvo = rolling strenght/power. --Dahlis 19:04, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RWD Volvo Images

I would like to propose that a photo of a car from the 200, 700, or 900-series Volvos be included on the page. An image of a 240 would be ideal, since it's the car that put Volvo where it is today (more than 2 million sold over its 19-year-run), but at least one of the cars from this classic RWD trifecta should be featured. There's a late-model 850, which is hardly a different car from a 1998 V70. Also, a DAF/Volvo 66 is included (not saying it's a bad shot, though), which is rarely seen outside of European markets (and then it's still a rare sight). These cars are certainly Volvos, but they're not representative of a true Brick.

I agree and i added a picture of a 245. --Dahlis 14:34, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Volvo Transmissions

If you would please update this article with this information:

Automatics:
AW50-42 (4-speed automatic, FWD/AWD)
AW55-50/51 (5-speed automatic, FWD/AWD)
GM4T65EV/GT(4-Speed GM automatic, FWD/AWD)
TF80-SC (6-speed automatic, FWD/AWD)

You could have done it yourself, bit I've added it. // Liftarn

It's not what I do.

[edit] Edit to model numbering section

I deleted this sentence:

This type of naming system is prodominantly used by luxury marques only like.

as I could see no useful meaning in it. Perhaps if it has some purpose in the section it can be suitably modified and restored. --King Hildebrand 19:13, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] VOLVO DEALERSHIP SATISFACTION

Volvo according to Forbes magazine is in the 6th place among the luxury car makers when it comes to dealership experience.This list also supports the case that Volvo is a luxury brand.The first car maker in this list is Jaguar —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.74.50.132 (talk) 00:48, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

THE REFERENCE IS THE FOLLOWING: [16] I am Tolis.I do not know how to sign....And the reference was made for the luxury brands and you changed it....To see the list of best dealership experience among luxury brands just click "Slideshow: Top 10 luxury car companies with the best dealerships"