Talk:Volkswagen

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Contents 1 Possible Cleanup 2 Volkswagen vs. VW in page titles 3 Stop The Bus 4 Oh-NO 5 Advertising and music 6 Adolf Beetle 7 Beetlemania 8 Trivia 9 T-Bug 10 Unpimp my ride & VW Commercials 11 The Downside 12 No One 13 Origins in 1930s Germany 14 Pronounciation 15 Carefull 16 VW Fox in America 17 1974 Audi Fox 18 Current Volkswagen Models Section 19 kudos 20 Reliability Issues 21 50 THOUSAND BILLION? 22 Joke section? 22.1 Volkswagen Bolt patterns 22.1.1 Jetta 22.1.2 Passat 23 Hippies

[edit] Possible Cleanup

Everything after "From 1970s to Present" and before "Corporate Structure" should be moved to other, or new page(s). Possibly keep "Relationship with Porsche" on this page. The article seems too long in general, as well as Wikipedia noting it is possibly too large. --UrPQ31 15:11, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Volkswagen vs. VW in page titles

Is there a reason why we’re using ’’‘VW’’’ instead of ’’‘Volkswagen’’’ in the individual model pages? I realize the redirects are all in place, but it seems that an article about the Golf should be titled ’’‘Volkswagen Golf’’’ with a redirect from ’’‘VW Golf’’’ instead of the other way around. Doesn’t the company refer to its own models as Volkswagens? —Milkmandan 17:00, 2005 Jan 18 (UTC)

The Company refers to its own Models as VW Golf, VW Touareg, VW Phaeton. I know this company well since I live in its homeland, Germany. No one from the company (and no one not from outside) says ’‘Volkswagen Golf’’. This sounds really stupid in german... I’m not registered because I am a member of the German Wikipedia ([1]) (I speak both languages), and not of the english version. Greetings from Wikipedia Germany... 84.140.146.16 17:28, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Good enough for me! —Milkmandan 18:14, 2005 Jan 29 (UTC)

A quick look at Category:VW vehicles shows that some model pages now are under the Volkswagen name. And using "Volkswagen" instead of "VW" makes sense to me. The fact that "VW" is easier to pronounce in German language, shouldn't be an argument for English Wikipedia standards.

Anyway, I think we should have one standard for VW model pages, and then follow that standard. --Boivie 12:46, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I would use "Volkswagen" because "VW" is more of a slang term while "Volkswagen" is more proper. --ApolloBoy 23:44, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

This is splitting hairs. Either one is equally acceptable. V.W. is simply an abreviation of Volks Wagen which is two words if taken literally (People's Car), Just like B.M.W., so do you suggest we make it convention to use "Bayerische Motoren Werke" instead of BMW.

--Paulbass 15:09, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Aus Liebe zum Auto - the proper translation of what it actually means would be "because we love cars" in my opinion.

[edit] Stop The Bus

The appropriate slang for Volkswagen could never be written here. My father in law died in a W.W. bus. He was one of those psuedo intellectuals who would throw his head back, with his nose in the air, and pronounce it VolksVAAgen.

I prefer 'Volkswagen' as well—it is this in most price listings in car magazines. It's 'Volkswagen' at the UK site[2] when referring to the company, but the individual models aren't prefixed by the make! (Cheeky!) However, our German friend puts forward a convincing argument. If mine was the deciding vote, I would agree with ApolloBoy above, but otherwise I'm happy to sit on the fence till I hear others' views. Stombs 11:57, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, I think all pages are changed to Volkswagen now. --Boivie 13:29, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Boivie. I came into this discussion a bit late. Stombs 02:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

That's too bad your father-in-law died in a W.W. bus. I'm not so sure what the W.W. bus has to do with the VW bus, however.

[edit] Oh-NO

Does that mean the poor Bastard died in vane?

[edit] Advertising and music

It would be great if someone could expand on the innovative advertising the company has used over the years. In particular, some ads from the late 1990s and early 2000s have been particularly influential music-wise in the U.S., with several selections becoming very popular because of ads (probably just goes to show how crummy radio is in the U.S. right now). In particular, there was “Pink Moon” by Nick Drake and “Da Da Da” by Trio. A lot of other interesting things have been done at other times as well. —User:Mulad (talk) 04:51, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

Also, mention should be made of the new ‘Aus Liebe zum Automobil’ tagline (For the love of the automobile) of the company. http://www.vwasia.com/publish/vwasia/vwasia/en/know_vw/aus_liebe_zum_automobil0.html

—bquanta 11:09, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The company that did the wonky "Less flower. More power" & "UFO" ads for the re-intro was Arnold Communications, in hommage to those of Doyle Dane Birnbach ("Lemon"), which have been called the most important in the history of commerce. Trekphiler 03:55, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Adolf Beetle

A best car in the world episode on Discovery TV claimed it was Adolf Hitler personally, who facelifted the original-original VW Beetle design to the classic big-eyed form. They showed a few seconds b&w footage of the ancient one with smaller headlights and a somewhat strange looking front. How much is the classic Beetle design styled by Adolf? Had that failed painter kept competing with Pininfarina rather than Joe Stalin, the world would surely be a much better place today.

I dubt it. The VW beetle is almost identical with the Tatra T97. [3] // Liftarn

[edit] Beetlemania

I rewrote this:

"The new factory in the new town of KdF-Stadt, now called Wolfsburg, purpose-built for the factory workers, had only produced a handful of cars by the time war started in 1939. Consequently the first volume-produced versions of the car were military vehicles, the Jeep-like Kübelwagen and the amphibious Schwimmwagen."

The Kubelwagen wasn't just a modified Type 3, it was an all-new design, the Type 81. Trekphiler 03:29, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

All the original KdF-Wagene were splits. And the prototype had the headlights on a spreader bar on the trunk, not in the fenders. Trekphiler 03:51, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] T-Bug

"T-Bug was an experimental automobile created by the Volkswagen Corporation in the late thirties to fulfill the Fuehrer's desire to have an all weather, 3 wheeled, go-cart." - is this a hoax? Kappa 02:31, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard of it; consider the reliability of your sourceNazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann worked as a foreman at a Volkswagen factory in Argentina before being captured by the Mossad in 1960..--Porsche997SBS 00:51, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

There was no VW factory in Argentina by that time. Eichmann did not work in a VW factory but in a Mercedes Benz factory, leaded by his protector, argentine peronist businessman Jorge Antonio who accepted this in a magazine intervieu about 40 years after. G.A.B Olivos, Argentina

[edit] Unpimp my ride & VW Commercials

I think this hilarious new ad-campaign, as well as the fake one with the suicide bomb contained by the car, should be mentioned somewhere. 209.33.36.146 06:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

VW commercials have always been critically acclaimed. If someone has time, a write up of VW's historic commercials (like "Big Day" and "Synchronicity", or even newer campaigns like "Safety Happens") would be an amazing contribution. --04:21, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

• I agree. I was taken aback by the recent "Safety Happens" line of Volkswagen commercials, something no other commercial has succeeded in accomplishing. For the first time ever, I was still thinking about a commercial minutes after it was aired. — CRAZY`(IN)`SANE 03:25, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Downside

Although someone insists on deleting my viewpoint on the safety issues, they nontheless exist. The fact that hundreds of thousands world wide died in these cars should be (albiet tactfully) mentioned in the article. What about the lousy heaters? the noisy engines? Although there are those who choose to ignore it, the "cute" little beetle killed more people than cancer.randazzo56

Do you have any references to those facts? Or is it pure speculation? --Boivie 08:42, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Speculation as to the comparison of those who died of cancer. Living in the U.S. I based my opinion on having seen the aftermath of collisions involving V.W.s and standard size American vehicles built during the sixties and seventys. All opinions and speculation aside, shouldnt we address the safety issues in the article? randazzo56

To those claiming there was a VW Beetle hecatomb--sorry, but you are just going to have to come up with references and figures. "[H]undreds of thousands"? "[K]illed more people than cancer"? These are facts? Give me some documentation, or give me a break. If anything, something should be said about the myth that a vehicle's engine somehow protects you in a crash. Most collisions aren't head-on, making a rear-engined VW comparably as safe as any car of its era. On another note, the heat in an air-cooled VW does not, I repeat, does not come from the exhaust. Nor does it only work while the car is in motion. Granted, the early VW heaters may have been lacking, especially in more wintry climates, but that hardly detracts from the fact that they were very well-built and well-designed cars. Bashing them because they couldn't keep pace against today's standards is like bashing an apple for not being an orange.

Idiot, where then does the heat come from? stupid, the muffler, Most collisions are not head on? serving as a paramedic for fifteen years I can tell you dont know what your talking about. A beetle being impacted from any angel is leathal. Volkswagens could never keep the pace with any standard, just ask the relatives of anyone who was ever killed in one, when driving or riding in a normal auto would have saved their lives. Wamt to see? drive your "luv-bug" into a tree. Forward, backwards or sideways, your dead. But thats O.K., we wont have to read anymore of your bullshit. Kaltenborn

No, the heat doesn't come from the muffler and it never did. It could be that you think an exhaust manifold is the same thing as a muffler in which case you're even stupider than your spelling and grammar would indicate. Apparently some measure of intelligence isn't required to be an EMT in whatever shit-hole you live. You also seem to be fundamentally lacking in observational skills, otherwise you'd know that most collisions aren't head-on. Maybe a lot really bad wrecks are, and those are the ones to which EMTs are called, but so what? That doesn't prove your case. Most wrecks aren't head-on, period. Why don't you spend some time in a junkyard and count all the t-bones and rear-ends and compare that to the number of head-ons. If any vehicles are inherently dangerous, they're the ones driven by dumbshits like yourself. And you drive an ambulance? God help us all.

[edit] No One

Cares64.12.116.9 20:45, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the engines are loud, engines in other older cars are lous as are engines in race cars.... you dont drive a bug to to have a perfectly smooth quiet ride....you drive a bug cus you love them.

btw...there are modifications that can be made to make the engine alot more quiet than they originally are.

and...there are amazing good heaters in old bugs...youi just have to know how to get it to work... alot of the time its just an burnt out fuse or a bad connection...do your homework next time.

-margaret digthesixstring@aol.com

I agree about the deathtrap opinion. Where are there fuses where there is no blower for the heater?. The heat came from the muffler and did not work unless the car was moving. How can an aircooled engine be modified to quiet it down? When it comes down to doing homework you just got an "F"

[edit] Origins in 1930s Germany

I'd like to request a little bit more information on the following claim within the section noted.

"The new factory in the new town of KdF-Stadt, now called Wolfsburg, purpose-built for the factory workers, only produced a handful of cars by the time war started in 1939."

If more specific information can be provided by anyone on this aspect of the article, please include it, as I was only aware of the oldest Volkswagens being produced in 1940 (according to the German wikipedia article on Volkswagen).

Thanks in advance! --CBecker 03:05, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello CBecker,

HALT Conflict of info here 2 stories

No.1 http://beetle-minsk.mebius.net/vwhist/bughist.ok.htm

No. 2 50 working test prototypes were built from July 1939 as display vehicles called VW39.

Source is book Volkswagen Chronicle by Graham Robson & Editors of Consumers Guide

--VWphaetonfan 05:02, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pronounciation

According to the beginning of this article, the companies name is pronounced 'Fôlks'-vagen. ?. I have never heard it pronounced with an "f". Or a "vagen". It's wag-in. I mean in their own advertisements on the television/radio/whatever they pronounce it as volks-wag-in. This actually sounds like a gross exageration of the German accent. I think we should say it as its common, and true, pronounciation: volks-wag-in.--Porsche997SBS 21:38, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I suppose the "'Fôlks'-vagen" prounounciation is in the German language. Is it relevant to write how it's supposed to be pronounced in English as well? --Boivie 13:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

and in German it shortens to "Fow-vey" not VeeDoubleU. GraemeLeggett 14:37, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Here & here (click on the picture with a man) are two German Volkswagen commercials. I think it sounds like they are saying volks-vohn, what do you people think?--Porsche997SBS 01:25, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd say it sounds like folks-vagn. In wiktionary you can see that Volk is pronounced [fɔlk]. --Boivie 23:37, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I have an idea! Why don't we find a German wikipedian, then ask them how they pronounce it? Say, is anyone out there German? --Porsche997SBS 05:47, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

To my knowledge Volkswagen is pronounced FolksVagen in Germany outside Germany is Volkswagen, V in German is pronounced like an F eg Germans call BMW BMV, W is pronounced V, I know when VW were developing the W12 most press thought it was originally a V12.

I tend to think that Volkswagen should be pronounced the way the country who built it pronounces it but thats just my opinion.

But I'm now trying to kick the English pronouncation & going Deutsch.--VWphaetonfan 07:50, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

VWpheatonfan is right, its Pholks-vagen, the e in wagen is almost silent while the emphasis is put on the a. Hope that clears things up. Regards, Signature^brendel 01:56, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

As a German native speaker, I can only confirm that in this country it is pronounced Folks-Vagen (or Pholx-Vagen); provided that the V is meant to be pronounced like the regular English V; the l preceding the k is not mute; the stress is on the first syllable (Fólks-Vagen - sorry, dear Gerd) and the final e is murmured, similar to the second o in the English word "common". As for the short colloquial form VW (Fow-Wey), in Northern Germany this is often stressed on the first, in Southern Germany always on the second syllable. Hope that helps. As an aside, German V is mostly, but not always pronounced like an F; there are cases when it´s pronounced like the German W, i.e. sometimes it´s spoken voiceless, sometimes with voice. --328cia 00:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC) PS: Letter to Car&Driver, sometime in the Eighties: Is it pronounced Porsche or Porscha? Answer: It is pronounced "it"...

[edit] Carefull

Your pronouning it Folksvagen might lead others to thing your a D.P., or simply brain damaged. And why would anyone call a four door sedan a Pheaton? Kaltenborn 00:36, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Why would somebody think that you sound like a DP pronouncing the company Pholks-vagen. Well maybe if your accent is to strong ;-) The Pheaton had four doors, it was a luxury sedan. Regards, Signature^brendel 06:28, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

A Pheaton was an open four door sedan, a convertible, or as it was known in the twentys, a touring car, not a sedan. 205.188.116.8 01:07, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] VW Fox in America

In the late 1980s/early 1990s VW sold the Fox, a low-cost sedan. It was nearly a duplicate of the Audi Fox from the 1970s. I apologize, but I am not able to research this at this time, but invite anyone to help.

The VW Fox is covered in the Volkswagen Gol section.--VWphaetonfan 09:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1974 Audi Fox

A 1974 Mechanics Illustrated road test of the Fox was indicative of the simplicity and quality involved. The Small-by 1974 standards-Audi had front wheel drive and cost a whopping $4200.00, the cost of a nicely equipped Chevy Impala or similar G.M product or Ford L.T.D. Yet the car sold well. Or at least well enough. It was equipped with a small displacement high reving 4 cylinder engine and most were ordered with the 5 speed transmission. Like many V.W. products of the times, the Fox was plagued with corrosion problems. 64.12.116.9 03:13, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

VW South Africa also produced a Fox from 1987-1995. This was however a Jetta MK1. --Paulbass 15:02, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Current Volkswagen Models Section

It seems strange to me that in the Current Volkswagen Models section, only models sold in the US include prices. I'm thinking that maybe no prices should be listed for any locality and that the United States part be changed to North America for the benefit of the Canadian Market. --Vkmitg 08:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] kudos

Your 74 V.W. 411 just made the list of Worlds ugliest Cars. Take a look, your right below the 67 Oldsmobiles. --Margerate Suckley.

[edit] Reliability Issues

That 'Reliability Issues' section looks more like personal bitterness than actual fact. I flagged it as needing a citation, but I think there may be reason to simply deleted. Fracture^Talk   01:48, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with just deleting it. There is already a paragraph about reliablitiy under the 'From 1970s to Present' section.Vkmitg 02:04, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 50 THOUSAND BILLION?

The revenue says 50,000 billion, I think it's supposed to be 50 billion..

?--Greasysteve13 08:59, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Joke section?

I really don't see the relevance of the following... Dan100 (Talk) 22:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Volkswagen Bolt patterns

This section defines the bolt pattern with which the wheels are bolted to the car. For example 5x100mm refers to 5 bolts 100mm apart.

[edit] Jetta

North America

• MKI platform - ?
• MKII platform - 4x100mm
• MKIII platform - 4x100mm
• MKIV platform - 5x100mm
• MKV platform - 5x112mm

[edit] Passat

North America

• Passat III platform - 4x100mm
• Passat IV platform - 4x100mm
• Passat V platform - 5x112mm
• Passat VI platform - 5x112mm

I wonder why this was moved. If you've ever had to look up this type of information you would know how difficult it is to find. The reason this comes up often is when you're attempting to buy snow tires. A lot of people buy a second set of wheels for their snow tirs (no need to swap rubber on the same wheels). When you attempt to go buy wheels, the question is what bolt pattern fits the car you currently own. Above is compilation of some of the more useful patterns (IMHO)

Besides, this is VW specific data and this is a VW Wiki, how is it not relevant?

This is not a VW wiki, it is the VW section of wikipedia. This is trivia and does not belong in the general volkswagen article. At best it should go in the individual car's sections. But even there it would likely be considered trivia.

As for the difficult to find factor, this was my first hit for a google search of Volkswagen Bolt pattern jetta.

Therefore I'm removing this section from the article.Improbcat 17:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hippies

There is a passing reference to the "hippie" movement but this does not appear to be referenced or expounded on. At minimum a reference is appropriate. But given how significant this "trend" had on the popularity of the Beetle (and Volkswagen) it seems appropriate to expand this discussion a bit. Anybody have more info on that aspect of history? --Mcorazao 18:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)