Talk:Volkswagen Phaeton

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Contents 1 End of the Road for Phaeton? 2 Shame this car wasn't well received in the U.S. 3 Other crap 4 pronunciation 5 Reliability 6 moved article to US section 7 Name Origin

[edit] End of the Road for Phaeton?

A blog is reporting that the Phaeton will not be making a return for 2007. [1]. Also, VW doesn't list the car as an available model. Perhaps the article needs to be updated? (I would do this, but I'm short for time right now sorry!) Raj Fra 02:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I added this in the American Market section of the article, but I didn't add the reference link you provided. I'm short on time as well so I'm not able to do it. Leofan7, January 11, 2007

[edit] Shame this car wasn't well received in the U.S.

I love this car. I also love my Phaeton. My lease is up in Dec 06 and I can't find a comparable car:~(

[edit] Other crap

I doubt the numbers:~( for the electronically limited maximum speed. How would you sell such an expensive car if it only makes a lousy 208 km/h (130 mph). That needs to be clarified.

• • All VW products sold in North America are limited to 210 km/h (130 MPH) - the Phaeton is no exception. I added a note to the body text of the main article mentioning the lower speed governor setting for NAR. PanEuropean, Sept 2006

• I just checked the Volkswagen Website it states 250 kph (156 mph) for the V8 and W12 version. Even the budget Diesel engine accelerates this car to 230 kph.

This article is written from a UK standpoint.

[edit] pronunciation

the typical german pronunciation of the word phaeton usually is ['fæ:ton]; so two syllables

[edit] Reliability

The newly added US Market section says Customers have been slow to accept a luxury Volkswagen, due to their historical perception of the brand as well as a reputation for poor reliability and unfriendly dealerships. Does the reputation for poor reliability refer to the VW brand, or the Phaeton specifically? I'm not aware of a reputation of poor reliability for the VW brand, but of course this doesn't mean it does not exist. Friday (talk) 15:52, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

There have been some major reliablity issues with VWs of late. Most notable is the "sludge" issue on the 1.8T version of the Passat. This has not been the only one. The New Beetle also has a bad reputation. Consumer Reports has them ranked pretty low. Nmpls 10:50, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

This survey refers to the VW brand I am concerned however about the biased sounding nature of the "US Market" section. Also, it doesn't sound professional with words like "flop" and "gas guzzler" used. I think this section should be amended to sound more professional and less biased. vw12 - 08:22 15 November 2005 (UTC)

In the US, "gas-guzzler" tax is an accepted term. It is used rather frequently by the media and individuals. It applies to vehicles with very poor gas mileage for their class (usually supercars or large SUVs). Also, VW has developed a repution in the last 10 years or so for poor reliability and over-pricing in such core models as the Jetta and Passat. I am sure these factors have contributed to the failure of the Phaeton in the USDM Chris

Agreed. "Gas-guzzler" is a legal term in the US. Much like "lemon." Nmpls 10:50, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I think the first section is...leading the reader a bit, I mean, Wikipedia is not the place for conjecture about why a car has such a dismal sales record. Simply state the sales, potential comparisons to other factual sales numbers, and let the reader decide what is or is not self-evident. Also, the language does seem a bit "colored" by automotive press... I suspect it will be easier to clean this article up (in a few years?) when the Phaeton is no longer sold anywhere and everyone has written her obituary, but for the time being, we should just stick with the simple facts, in a neutral, straightforward way. By they way, I'd love to drive one of these, they sound fantastic. --Sirimiri 04:46, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

---

The language is somewhat inflammatory, but the problems are pretty much as laid out.

VW's reputation for reliability took a severe hit when they had problems with their coil packs which led to predictable failure between 25,000 and 50,000 miles. The same coil packs were used in more upscale Audi vehicles and Audi did a voluntary recall to replace all the defective parts. VW chose to replace the parts as they failed, leaving many VW drivers stranded on the road, and those drivers "lucky" enough to have their coils outlast the vehicle's warranty left holding the bag for expensive repairs.

Since then, VW has been well down on all objective measures of reliability.

Dealerships vary widely, but one common thread with the Phaeton is that luxury car buyers are used to being treated with deference and offered perks, and the VW dealerships don't generally do this.

VW only allowed the Phaeton to be sold in certain-- Termed "Class A" dealers. Some dealers were required to build new buildings for the Phaeton (Example, WestSide VW in the greater MSP area) Nmpls 10:50, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

The only statement I take issue with is this "Customers have been slow to accept a luxury Volkswagen, perhaps due to their historical perception of VW as being an "economy" marque." This is conjecture, not fact. I don't think it should be placed there. I agree with Sirimiri, just state the facts and let the reader decide what is obvious or not. I won't touch it until we reach a consensus about it.--vw12 10:05, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

I think that the word "perhaps" makes it clear that this is conjecture, not absolute fact. If we only wrote facts that could be absolutely proven we wouldn't write much worth reading. Reading other automotive entries, it doesn't seem to be a problem to use conjecture to illustrate why various cars are popular. Why is it such a concern when discussing a rather obvious negative?

Honestly, if you were a wealthy auto buyer, would you rather buy this car with a big VW emblem on the front, or a Bentley emblem?

Heck, I know people who this was an issue for. I know someone who owns a variety of dealerships and he says this is exactly why. Numerous magazines/newspapers have said it too.Nmpls 10:50, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree with your reasoning, but the problem here is that the WikiPedia isn't an outlet for original research or conjecture. If the other auto articles have such things, then they are wrong, and will eventually be sussed out. As it is, the statement:

"Customers have been slow to accept a luxury Volkswagen, perhaps due to their historical perception of Volkswagen as being an "economy" marque."

Should be thus:

"Customers have been slow to accept the luxury Volkswagen."

Since the second is a statement of fact, not conjecture. However, if you find information on the 'net which states that customer hesitation is the leading factor in the failure of the Phaeton, then add it, and cite the source. --DarrenBaker 16:24, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] moved article to US section

Moved Car and Driver statement to the US part.--VWphaetonfan 11:12, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name Origin

I highly doubt that its name comes from mythology, as a phaeton can mean:

  1.  A light, four-wheeled open carriage, usually drawn by a pair of horses.
  2. A touring car.

81.86.76.6 17:24, 29 October 2006 (UTC)