Talk:Vladimir (city)

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[edit] Foundation date

The area occupied by the city of Vladimir has been inhabited by humans (at least intermittently) for approximately 25,000 years. Traditionally, the founding date of Vladimir has been acknowledged as 1108, which is the date of the first mention of Vladimir in the Primary Chronicles. This view attributes the founding of the city, and its name, to Vladimir Monomakh (Monomachus), who inherited the region as part of the Rostov-Suzdal principality in the eleventh century. More recently, there has evolved a new opinion that the city is older than this. The claim is that a certain Father Georgy possesses chronicle material that mentions the city in 990, associating it with Vladimir the Great/Vladimir the Fair Sun (later St. Vladimir) the "father" of Russian Orthodoxy. In the early 1990's those who support the new date maintained that the traditionally recognized founding date was more acceptable to the former Communist regime, as affiliation with Russian Orthodoxy would conflict with the doctrine of state atheism. This new theory has caused a great deal of controversy, particularly with students and instructors specializing in the history of Vladimir. The defenders of the previously uncontested founding year of 1108 dispute the claims of those who support the new date, arguing that the new theory was fabricated in order to provide a reason to have a celebration in 1995. Some specialists in the history of Vladimir argue there is no archaeological or chronicle information which supports the claim that the city was founded in 990, while others feel there is sufficient evidence to support the new date. Regardless of which founding date is most accurate, the city's most historically significant events occurred after the turn of the twelfth century.

I believe that we should not make the foundation date controversy, quite trivial in itself, cover almost as much as space as the rest of the article. The towns of Rostov and Suzdal always treated Vladimir with great arrogance, as a town they considered to be junior. This led to several wars. And Suzdal, as you know, was first documented in 1024. So stating that Vladimir dates back to 990 is plain laughable.

In post-Soviet Russia, several towns have changed their foudnation date. Usually, this is a result of political complications. For example, Mintimer Shaeymiev decided that it is he and not some future President of Tatarstan who should organize the Millenium of Kazan. Although we don't have sources mentioning Kazan prior to the 13th century, he fixed the new foundation date at 1005. He cited archeological findings that discovered several 11th-century coins at the site of Old Kazan, many miles from the present-day city. And 1005 was chosen expressly to make Kazan the oldest existing town on the Volga, beating Yaroslavl's claim. Yaroslavl's foundation date has been traditionally fixed to 1010 but, following Shaymiev's logic, they should move the date to the 8th century, as there was the largest Varangian settlement in the region within the bounds of modern Yaroslavl at that time. You see how complicated it is. --Ghirlandajo 14:44, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] CoA

I added a CoA to the article recently and found it removed. What was wrong with it? Is the CoA irrelevant to the city article? Was it a wrong CoA, wrong place (then why totally removed rather then moved?), removed by accident? --Irpen 06:39, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Article's name

Please read a discussion at Talk:Vladimir. --Irpen 04:05, August 10, 2005 (UTC)