Talk:Virtual learning environment

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[edit] Capitalization

Michael Hardy asked why I'd used capital letters for the page title. It's simply that in my experience, whenever this concept is referred to, capital letters always seem to be used (and the very common abbreviation MLE is always capitalised, too). Managed Learning Environment isn't a trade name (those are the things like WebCT, BlackBoard, etc), but it is a definite technical term, not just a nonce adjective-adjective-noun combination. But my experience may be selective, and if others think it should go into lower case, I don't object - we'd definitely need a redirect from the capital form, though. seglea 03:56, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Fourier transform is not capitalized, nor Maxwell's theorem, except the initial letter because it's a proper noun (and the initial letter is case-insensitive in links). Michael Hardy 01:53, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Sure. But I've never seen either of those capitalised in references to them outside Wikipedia, either. The point about MLE is that the people who use the expression always seem (to me) to capitalise it - so that's the way a reader needing a description is likely to enter it. seglea 05:24, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I've just done a Google check. 29 of the first 30 references to managed learning environment came up with capital initials. I think we should revert to the capital form for the Wikipedia article. seglea 06:12, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)


Lotus LearningSpace has been discontinued, see http://www.lotus.com/lotus/offering3.nsf/wdocs/learningspacehome.

[edit] "Should" vs. "Is"

Encyclopedia entries should not make value judgments; it should describe the historical or existing state of affairs and knowledge.

The Facilities section shouldn't indicate what SHOULD be included in an MLE. That's a value judgment. The purpose of an encyclopedia entry is not to hypothesize about what some developer should build.

Rather, the Facilities section should clarify what IS included in existing MLEs so that people understand what an MLE actually IS and what it DOES.

I agree. "A MLE can include" is netural. A motor vehicle should have 4 wheels, steering device, lights and a motor. A motor vehicle may have 4 wheels, steering device, lights and a motor. That includes the possibility of a train, automobile. Picky, I know. :--Rcollman 13:58, 29 July 2006 (UTC) bang hard

[edit] System Available

There was also a very non netural prediction about how open source will force higher priced properity software packages into nitches. That maybe true, but it is equally true that products with large market shares, have the same effect upon emerging companies. The new or smaller market share products migrate to the nitches.

I don't get this section. It still sounds like a sales pitch where the product has been edited out. Either put in a list with Name and Link - period no other information, or delete the page and let viewer of the page discover the external link to the WebCT Wiki page for a compairson. I vote for deletion - but I am not going to do it. --Rcollman 13:58, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Commercial MLEs

This list is removed from the article. Wikipedia is not an ad board. Unless the companies are of notability, at least to warrant an article, there is no place for them here.

[edit] List of Commercial MLE Providers

Mikkalai 16:35, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I disagree strongly with you taking out that list. Part of knowing a concept is having examples of what it is, commercial or not. I'd put it under the heading List of MLE software then have propritary and free/open source as two subheadings under it. --ShaunMacPherson 13:31, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
I think the Wikipedia should be the best place to find information about LMS. Why should the Wikipedia have every bit of information about a LMS except for a list of commercial LMS vendors? Is the Wikipedia reader really better served by deleting this information?

[edit] Facilities categorization

I am not quite concerned by the Should vs Is debate, since the ADL community tends to think in the most open way about it. Rather, I would categorize thoses facilities to open even more the subject.

Regarding the learning content :

- Course content facilities :

   * A noticeboard for uptodate course information
   * Additional resources, including reading materials, and links to outside resources in libraries and on the Internet.
   * Basic teaching materials. These may be the complete content of the course, if the MLE is being used in a distance learning    context, or copies of visual aids used in lectures or other classes where it is being used to support a campus-based course.
   * Electronic communication support including e-mail, threaded discussions and a chat room, with or without a moderator

- Course meta-data :

   * The syllabus for the course
   * Administrative information including the location of sessions, details of pre-requisites and co-requisites, credit information, and how to get help

- Assesment facilities :

   * Self-assessment quizzes which can be scored automatically
   * Formal assessment procedures


regarding the users

- User facilities

   * Student registration and tracking facilities, if necessary with payment options    
   * Differential access rights for instructors and students

regarding the authoring and administration - Monitoring facilities

   * Production of documentation and statistics on the course in the format required for institutional administration and quality control

- Authoring facilities

   * Easy authoring tools for creating the necessary documents including the insertion of hyperlinks - though it is acceptable (arguably, preferable) for the MLE to be designed so that standard word processors or other office software can be used for authoring.


Therefore what was previously recommandations become mere exemples of what a LMS could include to satisfy clear needs

Aggelos <aggelos_at_aggelos_dot_tk>

[edit] Redirects necessary

This article would be a better fit under Learning Management System. The term Learning Management System is much more common than Virtual Learning Environment. A Google search "Learning Management System" about 4 million pages. "Virtual Learning Environment" about 400 thousand pages. Anyone have facts to support favoring VLE over LMS?

We have a serious problem of articles springing up with alternate names. It wastes time as it is a duplication of effort spent on different articles of the same concept.

This is from Learning Management System and should be merged with MLE:

A Learning Management System, or LMS, (also known as a Managed Learning Environment, or MLE) is a software package, usually on a large scale, to allow the management of learning content and resources. Most systems are web-based to facilitate "anytime, anywhere" access to learning content and administration. At a minimum, it usually allows for the delivery and tracking of e-learning courses and content, and may also allow for the management of instructor-led training classes as well. In the most comprehensive of LMS', one may find tools such as competency management, skills-gap analysis, succession planning, certifications, virtual live classes, content management, content authoring, and resource allocation (venues, rooms, textbooks, instructors, etc.). Most systems allow for learner self-service, facilitating self-enrollment and access to courses. LMS' are based on a variety of development platforms, from J2EE-based architectures to .NET, and usually employ the use of a robust database back-end. While most systems are commercially developed, free and open-source models do exist. Other than the most simplistic, basic functionality, all LMS' cater to and focus on different educational, administrative, and deployment requirements.

I prefer the term learning management system, it has no past tense and sounds better in my opinion. Does anyone agree with this? --ShaunMacPherson 13:31, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

An MLE and an LMS are not the same thing. Within the industry (although not necessarily within academic institutions) there is a difference in meaning. An LMS is typically a system designed for corporate training (e.g. Saba, SumTotal (formerly Docent), Plateau) characterized by self-paced, just-in-time automation of the training process. Most of these products arose out of corporate needs. A Course Management System (CMS), on the other hand, arises out of higher ed's need (Blackboard Inc. started at Cornell, WebCT at U. of British Columbia, etc) and is primarily a tool for faculty to manage distribution of content, communication, and collaboration around a course w/ little emphasis on self-pacing, just-in-time delivery, or curriculum/certification management.

LMS and CMS are US terms. VLE and MLE are terms that have more traction in the UK and Europe. Virtual Learning Environment (VLE) tends to refer to something entirely online (e.g. a virtual classroom), while a Managed Learning Environment might be used for both online and blended learning. Granted, all of these terms are frequently used interchangeably, so in the end, as long as the wikipedia user makes their way to the most comprehensive page (and one that explains the terminology), it doesn't really matter which term is at the top of the page. 141.156.196.73 11:00, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)


I'm not sure how to change this myself - searching for 'LMS' gets a disambiguation page which does not lead here to MLE or to any other e-learning related link. --210.213.157.148 20:33, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The term MLE is not widely used in corporate UK or USA. LMS/LCMS are much more common. I would also disagree on the definition above on what an LMS typically does. Both of the top end market leaders in the Corporate space (Saba & SumTotal) go well beyond delivery of self paced learning and manage ALL learning, (self paced, blended, distance & traditional classroom) together with collaborative tools, skills and competency management etc etc. I have also taken the liberty of correcting the URL link to SumTotal which was pointing at a different company. As for should commercial links be here or not, if they appear in the context of something like the Gartner Magic Quadrant, then that is probably valid. One point to remember here is that Corporates do not generally deploy Open Source systems - whilst this area may be of interest to the academic community,it will not be to a CIO. :129.35.81.18 09:22, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Critiria for Commercial Listing

I've removed the "Brightspark" link (again). When listing commercial entities in an encyclopedia article, those company's should be indicative of the topic, either by historical significance, market share, or some other measure. Wikipedia is an educational tool, not a corporate promotional tool.

Brightspark was just founded in April 2005 (see http://www.silktide.com/news/silktide_launch_brightspark_vle_division) and, jcrooke, the fellow who keeps putting the Brighspark link in, is an employee of Brightspark or its parent company, Silktide. (see http://www.google.com/search?q=silktide+%22james+crooke%22 and http://www.google.com/search?&q=silktide%20jcrooke).

Brightspark is not indicative of this market segment, and certainly not a "leading commercial MLE provider." All of the other commercial vendors have been in existence at least five years. They all have dozens, if not hundreds (or thousands in the case of WebCT and Bb) of customers. This Brightspark link reeks of someone trying to use Wikipedia as advertising for their three-month old start-up. 141.156.196.73 11:00, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] MLE is not a VLE

A Virtual Learning Environment allows effective management of online learning through delivery of content, student tracking, and assessment i.e. Blackboard.

A Managed Learning Environment is the joining-up or interoperation of several separate systems - Student Record Systems, Library Systems, Management Information Systems, VLEs, timetabling systems and so on. Taken from [1].

The British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (BECTA) supports this as well, showing VLE to be a subset of a MLE system. View a definition of VLE and a diagram of VLE within an MLE here [2]. --Johnghicks 03:44, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Linkspam Event Horizon

This article has a massive amount of commercial linkspam. I propose to trim it, and replace the commercial external links with a DMOZ or Yahoo Directory link. Anything that has a blue wikilink will remain. If you feel a company deserves to be mentioned on this page, you'll have to have a Wikipedia page that survives Articles for Deletion. Please don't go creating articles about your own company. If it's noteworthy, somebody else will create the article. Jehochman (Talk/Contrib) 20:00, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleared all links

If someone would like to link ONE yahoo or other directory of links that would be better than two or three pages of links for this article. Dominick (TALK) 16:56, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] VLE vs LMS VS LCMS VS MLE

Talk about moving the LMS entry into the VLE entry, should probably be the other way around, despite the fact the VLE entry is more developed. LMS is by far the more common term for these types of systems. A google search will confirm that. At the least both terms should continue to exist, perhaps linked to each other as synonyms. LCMS is also related, though its entry suggests moving that into the CMS listing. CMS and LCMS are different in nature, while LMS and LCMS are similar in that they are potential learning environments, with the LCMS often including many of the tools found in an LMS, with the added ability to create and manage content. There is another class of LCMS that takes on a reposiotry role, just used for creating and managing content that might be used in an LMS/VLE, though the line between the managing of a learning environment in an LMS, and managing learning content in an LCMS has become blurred, as many such systems have taken on qualities of the other.

Many of the "LMS" systems being described are really course management systems. While it's true the use of the terms blur, there's a good reason to keep the terms distinct. CMS tend to have a course or class metaphor, with instructors managing discrete learning areas, and LMS traditionally are more based on tracking individual learners, sometimes doing assessments and delivering appropriate content to the learners as they work toward predetermined goals. It's more of an HR tool. Since most CMS systems do not provide the kind of learner profiles that allow a learner or manager to view the learner's performance and achievement over time, they are *not* learning management systems. 128.101.134.38 15:10, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Facts to support VLE vs LMS VS LCMS VS MLE

Lets use some specific facts to decide if "Learning Management System" or "Virtual Learning Environment" is the most common term for the information provided on this page. I think "Learning Management System" is the most common term based on these facts:
1. As of December 20th, 2006 Google has significantly more entries for "Learning Management System" (980,000) than "Virtual Learning Environment" (468,000).
2. The software systems listed on this page most often categorize themselves as Learning Management Systems. Visit the home page for each product and you will find this categorization:

Learning Management System (6)

  • ANGEL Learning - LMS
  • Bodington - Virtual Learning Environment/Learning Management System
  • Claroline - Claroline is a free LMS
  • ILIAS - learning management system
  • OLAT - Learning Management System
  • Scholar360 - Learner Management System

Course Management System (4)

  • ClassCentral - Course Managemet System or eLearning System
  • eCollege - Course Management System
  • LON-CAPA - course management system
  • Moodle - course management system

Virtual Learning Environment (1)

  • Bodington - Virtual Learning Environment/Learning Management System

Other names (9)

  • .LRN - .LRN is a full-featured application for rapidly developing web-based learning communities
  • Blackboard - a family of software applications designed to enhance teaching and learning
  • Desire2Learn - web-based Learning Environment
  • Dokeos - elearning and course management web application
  • Edumate - education learning and management solution
  • FirstClass - messaging and communications solution
  • Sakai Project - Collaboration and Learning Environment
  • WebCT - a family of software applications designed to enhance teaching and learning
  • xMentor - e-learning platform

You may think that the VLE name is more appropriate. If so, please provide facts that back-up your opinion OR provide facts that show how a VLE is clearly different from the description on this page. Leolucas 01:59, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] VLE vs LMS, a matter of teacher directed-ness

I would propose that the definitions of the types of tools be adjusted slightly and that there be a distinction, either on the page, or as two pages, between VLE and LMS (Learning Management System, which I equate with CMS (Course Management System)). The distinction I'd like to see is around teacher agency. Learning Management Systems, in our use of the term at Washington State University, are teacher-centric and about "Management" with an emphasis on the role of teacher as planner and manager of the experience. A VLE in our usage is a learner-centric space. The teacher may be facilitative, or not even present at all. For example, see our thinking on wikis for learning, which got written in response to Andy Carvin's call for teacher's input on using Wikipedia in the classroom. In our thinking VLEs are quite possibly Web 2.0 enabled, (see Dave Cormier's feedbook idea) and represent the interaction of users across systems and resources.

I understand that there may be political reasons for calling the History_of_virtual_learning_environments page by that name, having to do with the patent by Blackboard, but there again, I would argue, the term used in the patent is overly broad. Nils Peterson 14:10, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] VLEs etc.

In the UK, VLE is a much much more common term than LMS. I don't think both pages are necessary as they are essentially the same thing and I'd vote to keep the VLE entry, but that the page should mention the alternative term and explain any subtle diffrences - maybe that a LMS is more like a CMS geared towards education. Virtual Learning Environment should most definitely be capitalised - it looks very odd not capitalised!

A quick search on google "what is moodle" also throws in elearning platform. The difference in use of terms is clearly more to do with the geographical location of the user rather than the use and functionality of any systems.Ashvegas 20:05, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


I disagree. A LMS and a VLE whilst appearing to refer to the same thing are often references to very different entities: many commercial environments operate using a LMS simply for tracking and uploading/editing content; a VLE is a more comprehensive environment that presumes a tutor presence with learner-to-learner contact etc. - this latter more likely to be found in educational and not-for-profit environments.

I agree with the first paragraph but not with the one above. In Australia we describe our LMS's [Blackboard, WebCT, Moodle....] as doing just what you have described a VLE as doing I would also say that many using LMS's in learning contexts use them to just track and upload content whilst others will have teacher/tutor presence and peer-peer learning! At the LAMS conference 2006 [3] delegates were from the UK and Australia. The UK delegates described systems as VLE's and the Australian delegates described them as LMS's but both listed the same systems. --Rosh Wibble 05:07, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Learning Platforms ;-)

I guess this is why Becta coined the term Learning Platform to cover VLE and MLE. I think LMS and LMCS etc are related more to business platforms whilst VLE and MLE are more education institution orientated. The confusion of terms makes my work with schools difficult. Most people want to use VLE and see an MLE as VLE + MIS. The term Learning Platform also covers educational portals and CMS which don't necessarily have distinct teaching and learning functionality such as assessment, e-portfolios, course management etc. Some VLE software is very content specific.

I totally agree with the above comment. I'd propose that the term "learning platform" have its own page, as an "umbrella" term (specifically for UK education if that helps?) that could then link through to specific pages on MLE, VLE, e-portfolio, CMS, etc.

In a recent Government pamphlet for primary and secondary schools (Learning Platforms: Making IT Personal), I counted 19 different terms for learning platform! From personalised online learning space to personal workspace to e-portfolio to VLE to MLE to portal... Not very helpful in "demystifying" what is essential a fairly confusing area for schools.

We could use Becta's broad definition: "the term learning platform describes a broad range of ICT systems used to deliver and support learning. Through a learning platform, hardware, software and supporting services are brought together to enable more effective ways of working within and outside the classroom. At the heart of any learning platform is the concept of a personalised online learning space for the pupil. This space should offer teachers and pupils access to stored work, e-learning resources, communication and collaboration with peers, and the facility to track progress."

I think BECTA's definition probably says more about their love for creating new terminology (e-maturity!) than some desire to disambiguate. CSS-Prince 19:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] LMS broader than VLE?

It would seem to me that LMS could include a VLE and not the reverse. LMS could be a physical system. Usually "virtual" is associated with cyberspace and more specifically computer networked cyberspace. An LMS is not dependent on computers. If someone wants to expand VLE to include physical space along with computer networked cyberspace, then the entire perceptible universe is a VLE. Oicumayberight 19:59, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

[edit] For

[edit] Against

Scriptingbuddha 10:20, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Do not merge. From a user point of veiw, LMS seems to be more popular term and easy to be located and used. May be, Virtual Learning Enviroment can have a link to LMS, but not the entire LMS. As Wiki is used mostly for reference and learning purpose, LMS as a separate entity will serve better.

  • Above is my personal view and just to be taken as a suggestion.

Thank you

Scriptingbuddha 10:20, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm against a merge. A VLE could also be a game space. An LMS might just be a searchable XML database, a 3 ring binder, or an entire software suite to track thousands of users. Ekbeale 18:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments

  • Do not merge.
Virtual Learning Environment is probably a term 50 year old third grade teacher's use. Learning management systems are not "Virtual" at all, but rather manage online and often Standard classroom events.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cdeyoung (talk • contribs).
  • All the more reason to merge it into this article. Anyone looking for explanation will learn the broader meaning. Oicumayberight 02:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
  • There are multiple technologies discussed here... Learning Management Systems, Learning Content Management Systems, Content Management Systems, Courseware Management Systems, and Virtual Classroom tools. Although the features and functionality of each of these blend on some cases, they each still remain separate kinds of technologies and should be reference separately. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.89.84.86 (talk • contribs).
  • Do not merge.
An LMS, in itself, is a particular technology that performs specific, although broad functions. Additionally, the acronymn as well as "Learning Management System" is an idustry accepted term - not only in the education world but the business world as well, so there is no need to muddy the waters here. As mentioned above, there are multiple technologies discussed here. An LMS is NOT an LCMS - they are, technically, two different technologies. Some goes for Virtual Classroom tools - these are not an LMS and can be used independent of an LMS.
As a professional implementer of LMS systems, one of my hardest jobs is explaining what an LMS is and what it is not. This has happened because business and education communities have been thrown into a (new) world of technology with a variety of different acronyms with blurry and overlapping definitions. This leads to confusion, frustration, and ultimately lack of understanding (and embracing) these technologies. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.161.150.246 (talk • contribs).
  • I have yet to see a clear difference. If there is a difference, it should be emphasized in both articles. Oicumayberight 20:18, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Do not merge. People who want more information know to look for a Learning Management System, if nothing else. It might be helpful to crosslink to Course Management Systems and LCMSes, however. As someone in the industry, a VLE/Virtual Classroom is literally a synchronous learning tool such as a WebEx or Centra integrated with the Learning Management System. (See Plateau's VLS, Saba's VLE). No one calls it a VLE. LMS is used often sloppily by people who don't understand the difference between the tracking and online delivery tools of a LMS, versus a course management system such as Blackboard or eCollege. Angel LMS calls themselves an LMS but they are not -- they muddy the waters by in fact using the terminology incorrectly. The space is still shaking out and everyone is still using terms loosely. This is looking a lot like the LCMS shakeout of the early 2000s, still. Mrw1975 06:38, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
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