Talk:Violin family
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[edit] Contrabass
The double bass is *not* a member of the violin family. It is a member of the viol family. 208.187.181.35 04:55, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
- Yup. Just plain Bill 19:33, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I favor keeping the picture of the bass fiddle, to point out that this superficially "similar" instrument is not a member of the violin family, and so clarify the article. Just plain Bill 16:43, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- I agree -- keep the bass picture. We can add a note on the caption that says something to the effect of "note the sloping shoulders which denote the bass as a viol" or some such. J Lorraine 07:56, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Caro Zimbricchio: I flipped the bass picture back, since otherwise the tuning machines and strings would be reversed in the picture, possibly misleading the audience. Va bene? Just plain Bill 02:27, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, and I think the reversal (as well as the yellow background) helps highlight the fact that the contrabass is an "outsider" to this family. Just plain Bill
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- all right dude. It's impossible to see the different thickness of the strings, soprattutto in the miniatura, so I thought it would be nice to have a page aesthetically correct. My only concern was about the onore of the author of the photo, so I agree with your edit Bill --Zimbricchio 16:22, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Regardless of it's origins, the bass is considered a member of the violin family today. — ßottesiηi Tell me what's up 23:37, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
- It would be useful to point to who else considers the bass fiddle a member of the violin family. Got some cites to show? __ Just plain Bill 01:16, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
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- I've just looked at the double bass article, which talks about the string instruments used in the modern symphony orchestra, but does not mention "violin family". I think most bass players, teachers, and musicologists I know would agree that the bass is not a member of the violin family. If we use the words "modern violin family" and "ancestral violin family", wouldn't that be terminology that originates with wikipedia? Instead, we ought to use the terms that are used in the music profession already. The whole point of "families" of instruments is that they are related to one another historically, in their origins. To graft the bass into the violin family and call it the "modern violin family" is questionable to me. It is part of the modern string orchestra, and part of the string family, but not part of the violin family. An encyclopedia should distinguish between these things, using the terminology that is used by those who study and work daily with music on an academic and a professional level. J Lorraine 22:50, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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The term "modern violin family" is not wikipedia original research. I think that most people (as in musicians who play professionally) think of the bass as being in the same grouping and family as the other string instruments, but they also realize that its origins are different (which I agree with, but there are researchers who believe that the bass developed along with the other violin instruments). Like I have previously stated, you will more often then not find the double bass casually defined as a member of the violin family, even though it descends from the viol. -- ßottesiηi (talk) 00:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
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- I disagree -- by which I mean that when you tell me that I will more often than not find the db casually defined as a member of the violin family, I have NOT found this to be true. People I know casually and not-so-casually define it as a member of the strings -- and bassists I know are pointed about the fact that they aren't part of the "violin family". If I had not found this to be the case, I would never have postulated that the phrase "modern violin family" originated in wikipedia. So, now we need some bit of research or some several citations in which professional musicians and/or musicologists refer to the double bass as part of the "modern violin family". J Lorraine 02:41, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] merge?
Should this page be merged with string instruments, or does it have the potential to be a full-length article? J Lorraine 11:05, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
- Absolutely. For one, the history (e.g. Viola da braccio) needs to be mentioned. --nkayesmith 06:15, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] viols
what's the difference between the viol family and the violin family? the instruments seem extremely similar, are played the same way, and even have almost the same name. if one showed a random person pictures of viols, he would probably recognize them as being in the violin family. why are these two types of instruments regarded as so different? 67.172.61.222 17:55, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- The outward differences seem minor: proportions and the shape of the upper bouts are different; viols can be fretted; viols are tuned differently; etc. Most of the major differences come not in how the instruments appear on the outside, but in how they are constructed on the inside and in how they sound. (One piece of evidence listed on the double bass page against the double bass having descended from the viol family is that its insides are very violin-family-like, instead of viol-like.) To make a comparison: scientific classifications like species, genus, family, order, phylum, kingdom, etc. are important divisions, but the random person probably makes some mistakes if asked to classify a set of photos. You could say that both the viol & the violin families are members of the same "kingdom" (string instruments), the same "phylum" (bowed string instruments), the same "order" (bowed string instruments of western european "descent"), but not the same "family".... then within each family there are subdivisions-- e.g. viols in the "genus" of having frets & those not, or of different sizes, etc.... and then each individual instrument would be its own "species".... J Lorraine 08:22, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Once consensus is achieved on double bass family membership (viol or violin), it needs to be consistently applied to all of the violin, viola, double bass, and cello pages. Currently it is not the case. I'd do it myself, but I'm going to let someone more qualified do the honors. Ptarth 138.23.70.112 21:36, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
