Talk:Violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

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[edit] Source listed as "a staunchly conservative website."

Listing any source as "a staunchly conservative website" as in this case violates two of the three content policies (Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view and Wikipedia:Verifiability). I have deleted it.Dlaso 21:24, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Use of Children

Good Edit MathKnight.

  • I find the whole article quite biased towards Israel, I don't find myself confident enough to change it, but it should definitely be reviewed
  • Personally I find the "Some Features of the Violence section to be extremely one sided, implying that all Palestinian victims are terrorists and all Israel victims are innocent civilians. I don't want to start an argument here, but a polarizing subject like this is one of the most difficult challenges for Wikipedia, and I think it should be as balanced as possible. 69.117.143.23
i agree, the "Some Features of the Violence" and following sections need some work before qualifying as NPOV. i'm adding a POV-section tag. The section appears to be nearly entirely original research with no attempt (so far) at NPOV. Boud 22:19, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of organisations on both sides which are or have been responsible for violence

Why is the army listed there?? Of course an army has been involved in 'violence', every single active army in the world has been involved in some kind of violence! Even my country's litle tiny 'army' of NZ has been involved in violence. So as such I think that the IDF should be removed from the list, it is pointless. Mathmo 05:03, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Removing the Israeli government and its army from such a list is bizarre in the extreme, equivalent to listing only the IRA as being responsible for violence in Northern Ireland and omitting the UK government/army. It's a conflict. There are two sides. That one side is a government and army and the other a variety of non-governmental groups is not relevant to a list of involved organisations: All should be present Jacob

[edit] Ridiculous

i agree, it is absolutely ridiculous that someone added the Israeli army (within the last day!). The IDF is not considered a terrorist force by any country. All the Palestinian organizations listed are either categorized on this site as "Organizations accused of Terrorism" and/or are considered terrorist organizations by a country or countries. Hamas, for example, though they now have been voted the current official party of the palestinian authority, is considered terrorist by Australia, the US, Canada, Israel, Jordan, and the EU. Then they add something about innocent bystanders who are victims when Israel hunts for terrorists. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE innocent bystanders in EVERY situation. Shamir1 05:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Whether IDF is a terrorist organization and whether the civilian victims are just "collateral damage" is another discussion, which will not take place here. The Israeli government and IDF is, however, reponsible for much of the violence in this conflict, and therefore they're listed under (and if you read carefully) "List of organisations on both sides which are or have been responsible for violence." To say that they haven't been responsible for any of the violence is what I find ridiculous. It is well-documented, and soon enough an article detailing Israeli violence against Palestinians will be created. Also, your other edits were meant to justify and whitewash violence against Palestinians, and thus I reverted them. Try not to enforce a pro-Israeli POV. --Inahet 13:38, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually the IDF is considered a terrorist organization/entity by many nations, and most even state that officially for all to see every day. Most importantly however, when it comes to the Palestinian cause, it is a conflict between a savage occupying army (the Israeli) and a brutalized and unarmed civilian population. You cannot talk about the acts of one side without talking about the other, unless of course you are already biased and opinionated. Further, in both quantaty and in quality, Israeli violence is many times greater than Palestinian violence. Again, only a misguided person would eqaute 10 year old kids throwing stones at tanks with fully armed soldiers shooting bullets, throwing hand grenades, or shelling these kids, their families and their homes. A.Khalil

[edit] the facts

THERE are facts you need analyze. There are far more Palestinian organizations that are considered terrorist officially by the US and many other nations. I myself even removed an organization from the Palestinian, arab, islamic list that i felt was not terrorist. Though the title of that subsection is who is responsible for violence, it infers the 1 who is responsible FOR the violence. Feel free to add any organization in Israel that is considered terrorist and whose purpose is destruction, not DEFENSE like the IDF (its ridiculous to add the armed forces, and the government, WHAT? don't even get me started! And don't criticize me for adding the very accurate and VERY true note next to the 'demolition' sentence when you have stuff like "(at times with innocent bystanders)". lol COME ON! give it a break. i havent even added anything yet about the people and other mothers training their kids to die as "martyrs" to receive a reward of 7 virgins waiting in heaven for them. or all the loads of money given to the families of bombers, not to mention their free vacation to mecca. everything i have contributed is true, no doubt about it. Shamir1 21:39, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

As Inahet said, the list is a "List of organisations on both sides which are or have been responsible for violence." Deciding on the intentions or defensive nature of any of these groups is something much less objective than whether or not they are using violence; it is POV, and it constitutes additional information to the question of whether or not they have been using violence. "One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist." Boud 22:09, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Shamir, did they run out of virgins in heaven? Last I checked the ignorant types who would like to just rant their stupidity about Islam had the number listed as 40 virgins. Man, I knew I was being deceived and was given a high virgin number to entice me into the web of Islam, and I needed you to enlighten me. A.Khalil
Well, you are right about my being wrong about the number. The promise is 72 virgins, but does that matter? It isn't the point. If you are going to pretend the idea of 72 virgins is some sort of Western conspiracy to shed bad light on Islam, you are in major denial. I am not going to say what true Islam teaches and I never did, but many Muslim leaders are preaching that idea whether you like it or not. What an idiot. --Shamir1 03:37, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Shamir, I've seen your edits in regards to the Palestinians and Arabs in general and they are at best bias and at worst anti-Arab propaganda. I didn't notice anything in this articles that promotes NPOV or POV for that matter. A major balanced restructure is needed.Palestine48
I dont care what you think you have seen. I find your edits worse. I do not add anything that is not true. Here is the problem with your edits: 1) it says "PALESTINIAN, ARAB, ISLAMIC", Hezbollah is radically pro-Palestinian, Arab, and Islamic. That is not something I added. It has been on wikipedia for a long time.
2) The Haganah was a defense league established after the Arab attack of the Jerusalem pogrom of 1920. During the Great Uprising, the Haganah even adopted a policy of restraint. Even besides that, they are now the IDF.
3) The PLO has been responsible for a great deal of violence and terror attacks. They are considered to be a terrorist organization by the United States and other countries/organizations.
4) Armed settlers? COME ON! Who says the settlers are not defending themselves, or the opposite? Pff.. Do you want to put armed Palestinians on the other list?
--Shamir1 17:52, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Israeli settler violence

There should be a page on wiki for this issue. Settlers beat and abuse Palestinians in the West Bank on literally a daily basis, without provocation. One Israeli border guard was actually caught on tape beating a Palestinian child a few days ago, and it's making news in Ha'aretz. This is a big issue, I'm surprised it doesn't get more attention on wiki. Perhaps I'll start a page. Shamir1, Bt'Selem, Amnesty, the UN, Human Rights Watch, and many other international, Israeli and American organizations have documented literally hundreds of cases of Israeli settlers armed with AK's and chains and clubs beating Palestinian children on their way to school and home. That is why the Israeli army has to escort them now, and even then they still get beat. In many of these cases, it is just clear cut aggression. A student of history 23:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

You forgot to mention that in addition to "beating Palestinian children on their way to school and home", those wicked Joos use blood of poor cuddly children to make matzos. ←Humus sapiens ну? 01:01, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Humus Sapiens, your joke is pathetically ignorant. Have you ever read a Bt'Selem report in your life? I will get a source for this statement, because I can see it evokes powerful emotions in some people. But it happens. International volunteers move to the WB to escort children to school and home, and they too are beaten. If you don't like Bt'Selem, read any Human Rights organization report on settler violence, it is a fact of daily life for Palestinians in the West Bank. Are you really so narrow minded? Hell, there are videos of this actually occuring on the internet. A student of history 17:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Using images of little cute children to incite anti-Jewish hatred is nothing new: from Little Hugh of Lincoln and Simonino to Andrei Yushchinsky to today's accusations of Jews (note that the term "settlers" nowadays is reserved solely for Jews). Today the wicked Jews target Palestinian children (either by strategically placing toys filled with explosives, or simply massacring them), they target Lebanese children - see doctored reports from Lebanon war, etc. Surely, individual Jews who hate Arabs do exist (nobody's an angel) but some political activists, groups and organizations deeply mired in anti-Israel controversies are a little too quick to pick on the Jews. This is one example that shows what kind of "scholar of history" you are. For shame. ←Humus sapiens ну? 09:11, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Apparently I'm wasting my time with you. Instead of simply recognizing settler violence, you go on rants about anti-Semitism. Well done. And yes, those edits I made are all factual and accurate. Human rights groups and the UN have documented these over and over again. You seem to be one of these people who just blinds yourself to such things. I could source every single one of them, but apparently that whole section has been removed, which I am fine with. A student of history 14:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
There have been cases where Israelis in the West Bank have harrassed Palestinians in the past, but it is a two-way street. Not too long ago was an eighth grade boy stoned to death. Most recently a father of three was attacked and killed while praying in a forest. Let's not pretend that the other is not doing the same thing. --Shamir1 02:28, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
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