Talk:Vanessa L. Williams

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Vanessa L. Williams article.
This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.
Article policies


This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Portal:Biography
 Biography Portal
Start This article has been rated as start-Class on the Project's quality scale. [FAQ]
(If you rated the article, please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
This article is part of WikiProject Beauty Pageants, a WikiProject related to beauty pageants, their contestants and winners.

Contents

[edit] Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 22:20, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] African American?

I'm afraid this is going to spark a lot of controversy, and I was reluctant to write anything, but I couldn't help myself: can she be properly described as "African American", as she's currently described throughout the article? According to the text, her ancestry is 5/8 "African American" and 3/8 "Caucasian". I think most people (especially in the USA) wouldn't call someone who is (as an example) 5/8 white and 3/8 black "white", so why the opposite? That's without even getting into the issue of her appearance, i.e., whether she actually "looks" "African American" or not.

Of course, to me much of the problem comes from the definition of just what "African American" means (yes, I've read that article and corresponding talk page, and I don't think they answer this question well).

Maybe the people who wrote the article subscribe to the theory of hypodescent...

Well first of all, "African American" in this case and in the rest of Wiki is being used more as an ethnic term, not a racial one, similar to Italian American, Irish American, etc. that we categorize other entertainers as. But in the case of many US blacks, it's not as easy to categorize by individual national origin for unfortunate reasons, which is why it's done by continent (Africa), while Europeans and Asians usually do it by nation (Chinese, Dutch, French, etc). Secondly, the info about her race breakdown should be deleted anyway since its unsourced. Crumbsucker 15:19, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your input. I do understand that rationale behind the name "African American". What I don't understand is why it should be applied to people who have only partial black ancestry. And, in her case, even if she's not really 5/8+3/8 as the article says, it seems clear to me, from her appearance, that she's not simply "black". --Cotoco 15:45, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

As a side note to the above discussion: No Black American, no american for that matter, who can trace their familial history in this country back more than five generations is composed of solely one ethnic group. The exceptions are so rare as to be unmentionable. As for her apperance, there is no standard which identifies one as black. We come in the darkest ebon to the lightest ivory and everything in between. In the US, long and still have we utilized the one drop rule (one black ancestor identifies a person as black). In any case, I do believe, one's own personal definition of self should be paramount. And, Ms. Williams has always identified herself as a Black Woman.208.242.54.41 22:45, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


There's no such thing as Black ancestory, unless it pertains to social, cultural and racial identity. There is no Black gene. I doubt highly that her sub-Saharan and/or Arabic (and descendents other possible ethnic groups) identified as black people. The concept has evolved rather recently in history; as result of the Slave Trade and Africans in the Wester/New World. Even the African continent experienced a considerable amount of ethnic mixing prior to the beginning of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade. A Black woman, she is most definately, and is implied of her recent ancestors.
Ancestry By DNA.com is a very informative website. This company was involved in the BBC's 2003 Motherland - A Genetic Journeyproject. It speaks of the fact that since the dawn of man, people have been constantly on the move, evolving, mutating and mixing with one another (in an ethnic/racial sense). They also cover that there are two aspects of race and the concept of race is significanly more complex than it is generally understood and applied by most people. I believe that there are no individuals living today, none, that are not a product of racial or ethnic fusion occuring in the recent or distant past. 68.221.92.102 19:42, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Vanessa Lynn Williams → Vanessa L. Williams – For film credits, she is typically credited with an initial, not full middle name. Crumbsucker 04:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
  • Provisional support. She is not known as Vanessa Lynn Williams, and is known as Vanessa L. Williams, so it's better. --Dhartung | Talk 06:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose rename to Vanessa Williams as primary and move DAB page to Vanessa Williams (disambiguation). 132.205.44.134 01:03, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
    • As I said before, I don't know if the gap of notablity is enough for her to get the page name over the Soul Food series actress. Including the L. would be a easy compromise for disambiguation purposes (which she does herself as her page explains). She uses the L. in her stage name anyway, so it wouldn't be inaccurate to name the page that. Crumbsucker 17:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

I actually think that she should be at Vanessa Williams, as neither of her name-mates is nearly as well-known. I keep seeing more and more First Last name pages used as disambiguation "portals" and I think that's generally bad form. (On the other hand, we have three living users of the name.) If Vanessa Williams is supported by other editors, I will change my vote. --Dhartung | Talk 06:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The way it's set up now is flawed, but works IMO. I don't think the two bigger Vanessas (L. and A.) have that big of a gap in terms of notability to give L. the main page. Crumbsucker 11:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
Van-A is an actress, Van-L is an actress, hit singer, model, Miss America, first black Miss America, a Miss America stripped of her crown, first Miss America to not cry when winning the award... Van-L seems to have quite a good size gap in notability to Van-A, I would say enough to justify being primary. 132.205.93.88 01:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
  • She's most commonly known as Vanessa Williams. 132.205.44.134
    • She's known by both and uses the L. to disambiguate herself from the Soul Food series actress. It would be fine to do the same here. Crumbsucker 17:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request.

Ashibaka tock 22:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../v/a/n/Talk%7EVanessa_L._Williams_376a.html"