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Contents 1 Italics? 2 Merge with Speed article? 3 LOWER CASE subscripts 4 I can't stop! 4.1 Proposed merge with various V-speeds 4.2 Vno

[edit] Italics?

These are all variables; should they really be V speeds? E.g., V_S rather than V_S?—Ben FrantzDale 17:39, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Speed article?

User:Iancarter has added a tag suggesting that this article be merged with speed.

no: V-speeds are a detailed and technical topic, and there's too much information here to be merged in a general article on speed — it would be like merging Lake Ontario into Lake. David 01:32, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

but: both this article and the speed article are not too detailed and actually I was missing the V speed information in the speed article. You are correct, V-Speed is a technical aviation term but speed itself is also a physical property that should include all the different variations - it is where the non-expert would look first. (Lake Ontario is a specific lake while V-Speed is a variation of speed) However, I get your point - let's get some more discussion input... -- Iancarter 02:00, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Please don't merge. These speeds are not even true speeds but speeds relative specifically to the air. Even then some of them are not relative to true airspeed but rather the speed as indicated by an airspeed indicator so as to ignore pressure (altitude & temp) differences. Link from speed to here if you like. Paul Beardsell 07:05, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I concur with the above; this article should NOT BE MERGED with "speeds". V-speeds are not real velocities, but rather limitations on operations of an aircraft as indicated in KIAS. V_NE is a limitation, not a measurement of movement. Kob zilla 00:03, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] LOWER CASE subscripts

As far as I can remember the subscripts are lower case. It's V_fe not V_FE in all (UK and NZ) flight training manuals and (US written) aircraft manuals. Paul Beardsell 07:02, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it's universally upper or lower. I've certainly never seen V_ne or V_d - these two, at least, are upper-case in all my reference books. Tevildo 23:21, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

If it could be considered an authority at least for US use, FAA Publications that I've read such as the Airplane Flying Handbook (FAA-H-8083-3A) and the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge (FAA-H-8083-25) both write with the subscripts in uppercase. My copy of the 2007 FAR/AIM (ASA-07-FR-AM-BK) also uses uppercase in the subscripts. I have generally assumed that lowercase is used when superscript isn't easily available to the person creating the document. Aaron Landry 22:42, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I can't stop!

I've seen reference to a "refuse speed", above which an aircraft is unable to stop before running out of runway. Anybody know what the V speed ID is? Trekphiler 09:11, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge there isn't one. We've always just used "V_refusal" as the written form and called out "refusal" when we pass it on takeoff roll.Kob zilla 00:03, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I think this is V₁, commitment velocity, for single engines, and for multi-engines when V_refuse is lower than single engine takeoff speed. If you have a long runway, i.e., V_refuse is greater than single engine TO speed, V₁ may be set anywhere between the two.RandallC 07:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed merge with various V-speeds

I propose that these other articles on specific v speeds be merged and redirected to this article. Most of these articles are stubs. This iformation is also much mroe useful together. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 20:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

• Support. Paul Beardsell 23:59, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
• Support. —Ben FrantzDale 00:07, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
• Disagree. Shane Pinder 16:00, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I note that, while you took the opportunity to place this on a talk page, you carried on with the edit almost immediately. Stubs are just that, stubs. They are meant to be expanded, not deleted increasing our problem with the Reliability of Wikipedia. Your suggestion has been made in the past, and reverted. Perhaps you could spend your time expanding as opposed to making me once again revert a drive-by edit. V₁ speed, for instance, is a topic on which a few dozen PhDs have based their careers because of the importance of the concept in the aviation world. If you have nothing to add, leave it there for someone else to amplify. For my part, I will wait until I have put together a substantial article that will not be removed by every student pilot with a thirst for increasing their number of Wikipedia edits. Perhaps this comment is mean-spirited, but you won't catch me editing the Wikipedia page on the C programming language just because I've spent a few hundred hours using it, because I know there are contributors who have much more knowledge on that topic.Shane Pinder 16:00, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vno

Vno is generally understood to be the speed below which you can make abrupt control inputs. This is true with regards to elevator and ailerons, according to the regulations, but not necessarily true for the rudder. Particularly, the rudder is not required to be strong enough for a "checked" (back and forth) manouver to be made, even when flying below Vne. This is believed to be the cause of the crash of at least one commercial, passenger-carrying airliner. Only aerobatic aircraft have to have a rudder strong enough to withstand these forces. I don't know which airliner it was that crashed, but I'm pretty sure references could be found. It has been published in Flyer Magazine (UK) a while ago.