Talk:Ustaše
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is a frequent source of heated debate. Please try to keep a cool head when commenting here.
|
 |
This is a controversial topic, which may be under dispute. Please read this talk page and discuss substantial changes here before making them. Make sure you supply full citations when adding information to highly controversial articles. |
Archives:
Contents |
[edit] Quisling organization in 1929?
The introduction states that the Ustase were a quisling organization during WWII - and that does seem to be the basis under which they gained and held power. But then it said they were a quisling nationalist organization at the time of their founding in 1929. I deleted that second "quisling" because that could not have been the case in 1929, when Hitler was four years away from being appointed Chancellor (note: appointed, not elected). It looks as though they were a nationalist organization at their founding, which gained power solely because of their willingness to be and value as quislings. If I'm mistaken, please explain. --Davecampbell 22:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Can't we all just get along?
I just waded through the discussion page above to see if anyone had talked about the changes I was about to make (see "quisling" above) and was shocked to see the venom being spewed. Let us not use profanity. Let us not assume things about the ideology, ethnicity, hygeine or parentage of other posters, based on the fact that we disagree with what they say. "Bullshit" is not an argument. Regardless of the explicit plea at the top of the page, only one cross-link reference appears above, and that's to a tangentially related event.
And through it all, I see legitimate points being posted on both sides, which if stripped of the acrimony could make for an interesting discussion - the kind of interesting discussion that makes Wikipedia such an outstanding resource, aside from its goal, and the goal of all Wikipedians -- to make all human knowledge freely available to all humans, everywhere. At least, that's what it means to me... --Davecampbell 23:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Picture discrepancy...
The Waffen SS picture is in colour, and seems to be filmed...Is that accurate? All the propaganda films I know of are in black and white. Is this real? 24.218.57.174 05:21, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Genocide?
I have a question concerning the massacres on the Serb population during WW II because I'm writing a paper on this topic:
Are these massacres committed by the Ustasa regime on the Serb population during the Second World War recognised by the United Nations as genocide? If you have the answer, please site the reference!
Thanks a lot
Thomas —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thomas vanh (talk • contribs) 22:34, 25 January 2007 (UTC).
I don't believe they are, the victims are referred to as casualties of the war.
- Actually, it is. But note that "genocide" was UN-sanctioned after WWII. --PaxEquilibrium 21:02, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Pax, do you have sources on your claim? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lusich (talk • contribs).
[edit] Rewrite this article and use a non-Serb and non-Croat historian to do so!
While many facts stated in the article are true, the article is very onesided and should include both sides of the story.
Since neither the Croats nor Serbs can agree on what is true and what not, I suggest a deletion of this article and to have it rewritten by a non-Serbian and non-Croat historian...preferably someone with no ties to either country...a Chinese or Indoesian person for example.
The article as is, is not worthy of the Wikipedia standards. Lusich 21:58, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
- Heh. We don't delete articles just like that. Improve it, better. :) --PaxEquilibrium 21:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Non-Serbian, non-Croatian sources
This article should not be deleted, as it carries no contravercy whatsoever. The American Institute for Balkan Affairs confirms the exent at which the atrocities in Balkans were commited by the Croat Ustasha, as do many western scholars in regards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Millex (talk • contribs) 20:23, 4 February 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Current Status
I would like to add a point that hasnt been brought to light in this recent discussion. Many people are attacking what is said in this article and that is fine, but no one is taking a middle ground. When you want to prove who did what, hold up the different versions of history to what the current status of the country is now. Croatia is developing economically very fast, there are minorities from many different countries moving there, and they have passed laws banning hate symbols. In the mean time the Serbs are not developing economically. They kill each other and their government officials in the streets. Serbs are leaving Serbia to come to Croatia for jobs. And the CHETNIK symbols are part of their NATIONAL FLAG!! Seems their pride of a greater Serbia is slipping away. Who committed the acts of Srebrenica? Yes Croatians were accused of genocide as well, but no one is looking at the scale of genocide. Gen. Gotovina of the Croatia army was arrested for genocide and war crimes that amounted to less that 50 people. While the Serbs, with television crews watching, raped and murdered city after city. Sometimes with helpless UN troups watching. If you want to know which history to belive, look at what they have done recently and you will know what is right. Im not saying Croatia is never wrong, but the Serbian media has spent the time from after World War Two until now decrediting all Croatians because for the main part, they were the second largest group in Yugoslavia and a major political rival. The NDH (Independant state of Croatia)did some very horrible things, but it was also the first time in a long time Croatia had any type of national identity. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.193.102.131 (talk) 19:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC).
[edit] My say means something...
I am the grandson of the brother of Major Rafael Boban, "the evil man". Is there anything evil about loving your country? Believe me I don't think its OK what my grandfather led. Although you Americans and all countries pinpoint stuff like this to cover up their own actions. Anyone here ever heard of "march of death"? No? It's a little story about hundreds of Croatian soldiers who surrendered to the British in WWII. They were led back back to Croatia by foot, anyone who fell would be shot on the spot. Britain knows any soldier who surrenders is not killed and led to a prison for a later trial. Getting back to the point what we did was bad, but in all non-facist, non-racist sentence I have to say, Gypsies aren't wanted or needed in ANY country, Serbs were cowards who would be killed just like a Croatian soldier would be killed,. So in all I don't justify killing. But in the end its a war. Don't expect flowers and nice things to happen. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.156.36.236 (talk) 20:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC).
Yes, it is war. A croatian agression by their fascists called Ustashi on their serb minority, just like nowadays. Ustashe are the deepest evil mankind can produce. Nothing on earth can be hated in such a manner like croats can hate serbs. And the product out of this haterage are Ustashi. In no other concentration camp the inmates where murdered with more bestiality than in Jasenovac by the Ustashi. That is a fact, although not known to the wide public nowadays.
I several questions for you? How can you judge Croatian people just like that? Do you know why do we hate Serbs? Maybe because they tortured every Croat in First Yugoslavia (That was the name of country which existed before the NDH). And, if you didn't know they tortured to death and massacred 500000 Croatian civilians and Prisoners of war after the WW2 ( a.k.a. The Bleiburg massacre) Have you ever heard about the „Death marshes“. That's why we hate them. And why do you think that Jasenovac was the worst concentration camp in Croatian history? Have you heard about the camps where the survivors from Bleiburg massacre were sent? Have you heard about Goli Otok where comunists have sent and killed everyone they didn't like? Have you heard about Serbian crimes in WW2, or in 1991.-95. war? Don't teach us about our history, we already know it. And by the way the name of Croatian soldiers who fought for their country in WW2 was Ustaše, not Ustashi… (Proud Croat)
So true like i say the Ustase the defenders and chetniks the agressiors --Marbus2 5 13:57, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
