Talk:Urdu poetry

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I would like to suggest that we have the Urdu [and/Farsi] text of poetry alongside the translation. This could be in English script or in Urdu. English might be better. What say?--iFaqeer 03:42, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Danger, Will Robinson!

We are now officially in danger of getting into a firefight.

The sentence:

The history of Urdu poetry stretches from the 17th century to the present day, much of it centered in India. Following the Partition of India in 1947, it found major poets and scholars residing primarily in modern Pakistan and India. Over this period, Urdu poets have produced a large number of primarily poetic works.

Has lots of issues:

• 17th Century? Even the list of poets linked to below it extends back to the 16th.
• India again. Even the phrase "Partition of India" is a political point of view, as far as I am concerned. I will look into Partition of India and get back to you.

--iFaqeer 21:11, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

I didn't write 17th-century, which does indeed seem odd, since Quli Qutub Shah's poetry is far older.

Well, you can delete the partition of India link, though it would probably be beneficial to mention where Urdu literary history takes place!

As for fire-fighting, I'm not interested in that stuff. Just chill. No one's forwarding any agenda but that of factual accuracy and stylistic soundness.

--LordSuryaofShropshire 21:19, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

I have to come to respect what you write and your opinion. It is just that we are coming from slightly different intellectual backgrounds and I would like to posit that objective reality lies somewhere between where you and I stand. Though I have to also point out that there are a lot of people to either side of us on the spectrum; and I am very glad I am not dealing with someone on the "other side" of you, because the average between someone like that and I would not be an objective mean.--iFaqeer 21:33, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

Hmmm... I do understand where you're coming from. It was only six months ago I decided to teach myself Hindi... it's then that I had to think about Urdu... the choice was simple (I did). Now that I can read it, I find a lot of brain-washing has been eradicated.--LordSuryaofShropshire 21:40, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

Okay, the temptation was too great. What do you think of the tradition thing I have added? We all need to acknowledge the fluid mix that is Urdu-Hindi-Hindustani and celebrate it; not use it as an us-versus-them competition.--iFaqeer 21:46, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

Well, it's much better than before. But I read Kabir and he speaks shuddha Hindi that is bereft of Perso-Arabic: it seems odd to list him as a primary influence of Urdu. Amir Khusro is much more interesting because of his 'Hindvi' explorations in the midst of his mainly Persian ouvre, something that contributes to your Urdu-Hindi-Hindustani bit. But really we should probably focus on Quli Qutub Shah and Wali Deccani. --LordSuryaofShropshire 21:51, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

Thing is, one doesn't have to be an Urdu-speaker for Urdu poets to be influenced by him, no? And believe me, we speakers and writers in the language are.

Though I find the statement that he speaks shuddha Hindi a little odd. If I am not mistaken, most of his work is in something closer to Brij Bhasha/Purabi/etc. and very understandable (more so than Doordarshan newscasts, I think!) to an Urdu speaker. And we love him!

In either case, in terms of how old things are, Khusro is definitely one of the oldest influences anyway.--iFaqeer 21:56, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

Well when I say shuddha Hindi I imply a language based on Prakrit-Sanskrit origins unaffected by external (i.e. Perso-Arabic) influences. It's sort of my own personal rule to distinguish... Brij Bhasha and Khadi Boli are essentially proto-Hindi languages... read some Tulsidas if you ever get the chance. But I agree, Kabir was a massive influence what with his dohas and couplets. --LordSuryaofShropshire

[edit] Penname

I've taken some of the info from this page and a couple of other wiki-pages, and used it to add some info to the penname article, trying to make it less-exclusively European in outlook. Since I really don't know Urdu poetry, could someone take a look at what I wrote to make sure that it makes sense. (The haiku/haiga stuff I also wrote, but I do know Japanese poetry). [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 10:33, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The information you added to penname on takhallus is correct. Sarayuparin 03:19, 9 December 2006 (UTC)