Talk:Ur

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[edit] "Kasidim" equals Kassites?

"The Kasidim could also refer to the Kassites who were present during the time during which the Exodus occured." Has any historian or archaeologist made this connection? Or is it 19th-century Bible-talk? A source or reference for this would make it more encyclopediable, though a religious website would not be very helpful. Anything? --Wetman 13:26, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] January 2004 entry

I think its great someone cared to edit this entry. I specified tried to write it in 3rd person so others could modify it (especially for grammar). I also largely avoided to make personal opinions, but tried to only report what I saw. I think the latest edit of it, is great, but I also think it has lost some references and some of it is actually not true anymore.

  • The tourist part now is a blunt statement. Anyone, say western reading this, with no personal knowledge of this, will think “ahhh that must be like visiting the British museum”. When the fact is, it is pretty far from it. That is why a specified made a reference to Egypt. A place with similarly culture (at least compared to western), and chances is many more people have visited. If somebody reference to Egypt’s tourism as industrial and have visited a western major tourist place, they are more likely to understand the huge different between UR tourism and visiting the British museum. I think the current wording is misleading.
  • The graffiti part is now not true. It should be reversed, as it is mostly with pens and occasionally carved. (Except the Ziggurat)
  • It is a fact that nobody knows how the top of the Ziggurat is supposed to look.
  • The part of the helicopters comes over incorrect to me. I’m not sure what is wrong with the wording??
  • Consolidations of the grave, is an opinion maybe. But anyone seeing it in the real will arrive at the same thought, in seconds. And if the graves some day collapses, this is exactly the kind of information people will be looking for “at what time was the graves in what shape”
  • That part of the walls of the graves being filled with pottery debris is also fact. It can un-doubtful be worded better (I’m not an English speaker), but it is 100% facts and I can prove it (Photos). I don’t see why the whole section had to be chopped?

I'm not sure if I should just edit, since I am the original writer of it and it may get the impression that i'm bias and just want my version. Twthmoses 00:11, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The editing of your on-site report seemed a little harsh, but you get the idea:slightly more formal in approach and less personal. Do correct the text so it's accurate. --Wetman 03:56, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Correction

Corrected mistake showing Nabonidus as the last king of Babylon in 639 BC. Changed it to 539 BC. -- Mkofron 09:05 UTC 4/28/05

[edit] Falsified Genesis quote

I hope that everyone can detect the rhetorical sleight-of-hand in which a quote from Genesis is made to look more historical in the following:

In Genesis xi. 28 and 31 and xv. 7, Ur is described as the birthplace of Abraham, the largest city of Shinar or northern Chaldea, and the principal commercial centre of the country as well as the centre of political power.

This is not in fact how Ur is described in the Genesis quotes, which are alluded to but not actually exhibited. This is a very familiar technique, which everyone should be aware of. I've left it untouched in the text as a characteristic example. Anyone may edit it out if they like, of course --Wetman 04:30, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

I do not understand what “rhetorical sleight-of-hand” means, but you are indeed correct this is not what the OT says about UR. In fact is does not even specified say that Abraham is born in UR. Neither does it mention anything about largest city, Shinar (in connection with UR), principal commercial centre or centre of political power. Twthmoses 15:03, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Is Great Ziggurat reconstructed?

Great Soviet Encyclopedia has a label 'reconstruction' under the drawing of this ziggurat. It should be cleared out whether it is ancient building or modern reconstruction Ilya K 18:54, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If the illustration is a drawing that shows a crisp, clean ziggurat, perhaps with people walking about, then it is the illustration that is the reconstruction, a commonplace when explaining constructions that are in ruinous condition. If it's a photo, then we have a question still. --Wetman 20:28, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The basic structure you see today is largely of ancient making. I have a lot of photos from the 20’s and 30’s while those show a lot more sand and more damage to the outer walls and especially the top looks more in disorder, it is basically the same as today. There has been some repairing done that is for certain, but while I was there I did not notice any stones of newer making use to do that. I think they simply put some of the stone that had fallen down in their place again. Asphalt and tar is all over the place and only a few place can you see modern mortar (reparing), but you actually have to look for it to see it.
I think it’s not unlike the sites in Egypt. If you see photos from the 70’s and compare them with today you can clearly see repairing and consolidation have been done, but they are still ancient temples.
I would like to show it by uploading some examples, but I don’t know where I got the photos so I can't tag them proper, other then they are from the British excavation in the 20’s and 30’s (had them for years) and I got a few from the 50's and 60’s I think and compare them to 2004 pictures.Twthmoses 00:10, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I was not cautious, that drawing has a temple on the base, while photo doesn't Ilya K 08:56, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Error in coordinates?

I'm afraid that clicking on the coordinates returns an 'out of range' error.

[edit] Coordinates corrected

I changed the coordinates to the required deg / min format and set them to center on the Ziggurat. User:David.c.h 10 October 2005


[edit] Etymology of Ur

Ur means "city' in Sumerian.

But, I 'll suggest an other etymology.

Ur, Ur-uk, Sur-rupak, Er-idu, (Plus compare: greek name "Er-ytra sea" = modern Persian Gulf). What's happen?

Is it possible that these cities may found, in the ante-deluvian era (i.e. 4th or 5th millennium B.C.), by some proto-Hurrians (a hemi-indoeuropean but not semitic people)?

--IonnKorr 21:08, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Biblical Ur Section

This has been put back although the info is in the Ur Kasdim article. Does it really belong here seeing that as is explained in the Ur Kasdim article, it is not known with certainty that Sumerian Ur was Ur Kasdim, its simply the most favoured conjecture? Kuratowski's Ghost 14:11, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2004 Entry

Can somebody explain to me the "rumor" about Tallil Airbase overseeing Ur? Maybe I am not reading the entry right, but Tallil is a stone throw away from Ur. You can see this by using Google Maps, Earth or any other mapping software. Now, if the meaning is that Tallil Aribase is conducting surveillance of the site? That's not a rumor either. Ur falls under the area of operations/interest for that particular base. Surveillance of nearby sites is not suspected, it is expected. user:jerry.mills

Why not bring the text into line with these facts?--Wetman 04:48, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The name of this city is not even 'Ur'

The city is named as 'Urima' in Sumerian cuneiform, and 'Uriwa' in Akkadian cuneiform. No inscriptions have been found naming this city as being "of the Chaldeans". Abraham's 'Ur', which is related to the word in Hebrew for 'fire' or 'light', not 'city', should be searched for in the area which the Bible says is his 'land of nativity', Aram Naharayim, i.e. northern Mesopotamia...not the Biblical Shinar, i.e. Sumer

[edit] Removed unsourced rumor data in 2004 Entry

Just removed information about rumors that Talil AB is watching the site. It is not a rumor. - Jerry.mills 05:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Should "All About Archeology" be in the list?

The "All About Archeology" site has a little bit of information about Ur. However, the site is not particularly about archeology -- it's a proselytizing site. I haven't looked closely at the site, but I would be shocked if the site mentioned anything that disagreed with (their interpretation of) the Bible. Should the site be listed as a reference? Chip Unicorn 17:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Well the Jewish Encyclopedia is already listed. You could use exactly the same argument to get rid of that source. But this is wikipedia, so in the interest of neutrality I don't think we are going to get rid of either one. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 18:01, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Population estimate

The text "Ur at its height had around 30,000 residents' has been deleted by someone. Perhaps a better estimate could be quoted. --Wetman 02:43, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

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