Talk:Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada

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[edit] Switched affiliation?

Article needs to elaborate a little because as of now it is confusing. On one hand, it says it was created by Greek Catholics. On the other hand it has "ties" with UAOC and operates under the Patriarch of Constantinople. There either is a factual error, or there was an important transition, that's ommitted. Anyone knows the story? --Irpen 03:56, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

This is my very basic understanding, but I don't know much of the details. Remember that Ukrainian Orthodox and Uniate rites are pretty similar or the same; the differences are mainly political. Priests have moved from one to the other, and there have been at times several congregations in Canada that did not officially belong to any of the church bodies, or that were subordinate to non-Ukrainian churches, especially in the early 20th century. I believe the UAOC was established with support from Canadian clergy. On the other hand, as a member of the Constantinople diocese, the UOCC must now recognize the Russian Orthodox Church, and I believe this has recently caused friction, or at least a lack of communion with the two Orthodox churches in Ukraine. —Michael Z. 2005-07-18 04:06 Z

There must be something else too. The liturgy is similar, so both churches may look close enough for the lay people. Political differences are of course huge but this may've been less important for Ukrainians in remote areas of Canada, who felt united as Ukrainians first of all, than for Ukrainians in Ukraine, who felt divided by what they viewed as "schism" or forced conversions in either direction. But there are also doctrinal differences which may not be unimportant for clergy. I think we should look into this and edit the article once we find out. --Irpen 04:28, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

I've only absorbed all this from a few anecdotes related by a historian friend. The early history of the churches in Canada is quite chaotic and interesting. An example, although I'm probably getting some details wrong: in Winnipeg there were two major Ukrainian Catholic churches across the street from each other.

The first urban congregation to build a church in Canada was St. Nicholas' Church in Winnipeg, in 1899.[1] I believe at the time there was little or no official representation of the church from Ukraine here. The congregation had been operating in the Holy Ghost Polish catholic church, but was essentially kicked out by a new parish priest who had no tolerance for the Ukrainians, so they established their own church (St Nicholas') on McGregor Avenue. In 1904, they built a new stone church across the street with the support of the local Roman Catholic diocese of Bishop Langévin (There is a large local French-Canadian community, mostly Catholic), abandoning the original building. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church in the USA sends a Basilian priest to Winnipeg, who takes over the leadership of this parish.

In the mean time, another Ukrainian Catholic priest shows up in Canada, who finds that there are enough faithful in the neighbourhood who don't trust the Roman Catholic-influenced Basilians to take over the old St. Nicholas' church building and establishes the church of Sts Vladimir & Olga, across the street. This church has no canonical standing. It is at least party staffed by clergy without official status, many of whom came to Canada as a result of scandal, and when Bishop Budka visits from Ukraine, he performs services at St. Nicholas and even Holy Ghost, but doesn't set foot in St. V & O.

Eventually everything gets sorted out, and now the cathedral of Sts Volodymyr & Olha is the seat of Ukrainian Catholicism in Canada (known affectionately by some as Saint Wally & Olly's). A newer St. Nicholas' and associated monastery is about 20 blocks north of the original location, but its old bell tower still stands across the street from the large cathedral, built over the foundations of the little wooden church. —Michael Z. 2005-07-18 05:08 Z

That above is an interesting story. We should find an article for it :). As for this one, I updated it using http://www.uocc.ca/yesterday1.html site. Info from there is sufficient to further expansion of course, but that will happen eventually. The main thing is that the core confusion is now resolved. Cheers, --Irpen 05:30, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Anyway, the church never switched affiliation, because it was never properly affiliated with anyone...it's only affiliation has been the one to the Church of Constantinople.--Calak 01:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)