Talk:U.S. state

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

U.S. state was a good article candidate, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. Once the objections listed below are addressed, the article can be renominated. You may also seek a review of the decision if you feel there was a mistake. Date of review: 13 April 2006

U.S. state is included in the 2006 Wikipedia CD Selection, or is a candidate for inclusion in the next version. Please maintain high quality standards and, if possible, stick to GFDL-compatible images.

	United States Portal This article is within the scope of the United States WikiProject. This project provides a central approach to United States-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the Project's quality scale. Please rate the article and then leave a short summary here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.

This is part of a WikiProject.

For optional guidelines on contributing see WikiProject U.S. States

It was proposed that this article be moved to "States of the United States" but the move was rejected on November 18, 2005 due to a lack of consensus. See Requested move below.

[edit] Division of Texas

The District of Columbia is also one of the political subdivisions of the United States. I also read somewhere that the Texas dividing into 5 other states is an urban legend, but I can't find it right this second. -- Zoe

• Sorry for a delayed answer, but I just recently noted your comment. The treaty negotiated between Texas and U.S wasn't ratified by U.S., further negotiations produced a congressional Joint Res (JR) in 1844 that supported Texas admission and had the 5 states (actually 4 additional) comment. The pre-admission Texas legislature passed a word for word identical resolution in July, 1844. BUT, when Texas was admitted again after the civil war the whole issue was dropped. Today it would take a building full of lawyers to write briefs on both sides of the can Texas unilateraly subdivide issue. Besides, except for a radical fringe, we don't want to.- Lou I 17:34 25 May 2003 (UTC)
  • I belive the "Texas can subdivide" issue related the entry of Texas into the Union: The treaty mentioned above merely meant that the Republic of Texas could, if it wanted, enter the Union as up to 5 states instead of one. But once it actually entered the Union as one state, this provision of the treaty was no longer meaningfull. Incidentally, the Constitution says that a state legislature can vote to split a state up, though Congress would have to approve the admission of each new state. This has happened once, in the case of West Virginia, though that situation was a bit dodgy. --jfruh
    • Several clarifications: 1) Texas was not admitted to the Union by a treaty. The initial proposed treaty was rejected by the U.S. Senate. Congress subsequently passed a joint resolution inviting Texas to join the Union (the same method used to admit every state after the original 13). That resolution specifically stated that, once Texas became a state, new states could be created out of it. (The text of the resolution can be seen here, as part of ordinance passed by the Texas constitutional convention.) However, the resolution is ambiguous as to who (i.e., the federal government or Texas) could initiate the division. 2) Your statement about the creation of new states from existing is correct, but incomplete. Maine was originally part of Massachusetts, but was admitted to the Union in 1820 with the approval of the Massachusetts state legislature and Congress. In contrast to the West Virginia situation, the admission of Maine was unquestionably constitutional. Mateo SA | talk 02:25, May 26, 2005 (UTC)
      • I believe Texas already has divided itsself up into 5 states. When Texas first entered the US, its borders extended well into Colorado. So, You could say that, Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming, and Oklahoma are the 4 states split off from Texas. I suspect this is not what people had wanted but its true. Magnum Serpentine 3-9-6

I added the stuff about "There is a saying in Texas." That sentiment is true. Therefore, discussion of the minutia is pointless, since the provision will never be invoked. RickReinckens 07:39, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Capitalization of first letter

Shouldn't the first letter of "state" in this context be capitalized to distinguish it from state? --Jiang 07:41 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)

No. It is not a proper noun. Capitalization is non-standard as a means of differentiating common nouns. --Tysto 22:26, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Iraq

Er... Iraq is now a U.S. colony? I gotta turn on the news more often... -- Wapcaplet 19:42 13 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I looked around and couldn't find any corroborating evidence on this; there's some speculation that the Bush administration may want to turn Iraq into a colony. Looks like Mav already reverted it. -- Wapcaplet 19:53 13 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Is the formal status that Iraq is still an "occupied territory" that is being "administered" by the US-led coalition? Or something else? Martin

I errored the US is the "occupying power" not "colonial power" over Iraq. PeterK

so in the 70s, was all of latin america also part of the 50 states?, since they were all dictatorships supported and/or started by the United States. Should Peru be included here?. Should Nigeria, whos got enough oil to be a world super power (YET, it is all on the hands of american corporations), be placed here?. I think its the first time in history that a hegemony has crossed all the 5 continents.

• Perhaps you should read up on the British Empire. --Tysto 22:36, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Secession

It is the widely held perception that the American Civil War determined that it could not [secede], though a good number of states' rights supporters assert that the American Civil War was conducted illegally or was not a definitive precedent.

I removed everything after "it could not". The secession of a U.S. State is not a serious proposition and its possibility is considered only by a handful of wackos and perhaps a handful of academics with no grasp on reality. User:Tempshill

It didn't used to be such. The South is not the only area that ever wanted to secede. --Golbez 07:07, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)

Tempshill, you obviously don't know your history. THE issue of the Civil War was whether states had the right to secede. As the article says, the Constitution is silent on that.

What happened was that the North was mainly politically liberal, with New England engaged mainly in whaling, etc., the middle states engaged in light manufacturing, etc., and the South was conservative and agricultural. The same liberal versus conservative arguments that rage today raged then. Basically, politically conservative Southerners who wanted small local government got sick of Northerners trying to tell them what to do and insisting on big central government. (And though I live in Dallas I was raised on Long Island and I consider myself "moderate".) The Southerners decided, "Eighty-some years ago our forefathers came together as the United States. We did not agree to that. Now that we are seeing where this is going, we want out." The Northerners said, "You can't leave. The Constitution doesn't say you can leave." The response of the Southerners was, "It doesn't say we can't leave." When that was ignored, someone took up arms.

Shelby Foote, noted Civil War historian, has pointed out that before the Civil War people said, "The United States are . . ." but after we say, "The United States is." People, at least Southerners, considered themselves, "a Virginian", or a "Texan", not an "American", in the sense we think of it today, where, e.g., a Bostonian kidnapped overseas and who has never been west of the Mississippi could be returned to California and feel, "I'm home."

RickReinckens 08:01, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish origin of name of California

Two references to back up the assertion that the name California is Spanish in origin: [1] [2]

Both were found during aprox. 60 min. of web search, no other corroborating (sp?) or conflicting referrences were found. What they state is that California was named after the mythical paradise called Califia found in the book Las Sergas de Esplandián by Garcia Ordóñez de Montalvo written c. 1510.

Ducker 08:41, 25 Sep 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Map scale

Where could I find a map of the United States where Alaska is to the same scale? I'l like to make a map for the Alaska page that has Alaska overlayed on the contenental U.S. to give a sense of scale. User:63.231.59.63

The map is distorted: If Alaska is to scale, it would be almost as large as the contigious 48 states. Is there a more accurate map available? User:67.168.16.202

[edit] State mottos

I want to add a state mottos in Latin, but with all of my respect I will not do it alone, without discuss. So, How and Where I must add them...Alabama- Audemus iura nostra defendere - We dare defend our rights, Arizona- Ditat Deus - God enriches...etc. --Egon 14:14, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)

• State mottos are part of the details for each state. And, altho I personally dislike lists, others would judge this appropriate for List of U.S. state mottos, which already exists. --Tysto 22:36, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Regions

I know that I'm probably going to get yelled at but the United States actually does have "official" regions. They are the four regions that are used by the Census Bureau; Northeast, Midwest, West, and South. If we used these regions we could get regional information directly from the census bureau. Using this system may also put some of the "controversy" to rest over which state is listed in which region since this is how the Federal Government groups them. I know that several encyclopedias still use these regions, but the borders and members of the Southwest and Mid Atlantic are nebulous at best, are often gerrymandered, and vary from book to book. You can see how the Census Bureau divides the US at http://www.census.gov/geo/www/us_regdiv.pdf. I don't want to delete the other regions but these should take precedence over them. The regions are more cosmopolitan culturally and therefore less likely to have one culture dominate another. Please post on my talk page, or here. As of December 22, I received permission from Sfmontyo to convert us_regions.gif to the Census Bureau Model. Since this is a somewhat controversial topic I wanted to discuss it before I started any changes. I would appreciate any help resolving this issue. --JCarriker December 22, 2003

I have a comment - leave the biological references alone! When you alter Fouquieria to say American West, that implies the plants might be found in Washington state, which is completely misleading. When describing American Southwest, it's important to say that it's not an official census region, and to describe the range of interpretations (Arizona is always in, Utah maybe or maybe not). The concept of the Southwest is very familiar even if its borders are not, and WP performs a useful service by carefully describing the distinction. Stan 14:48, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

JCarriker,

I realize what you're trying to do with changing the regions of the US to match the government's... but I think that some discussion is warranted before obliterating all references to the Southwest, Mid-Atlantic, etc. While the government may break up the country in that way, the majority of the population uses Southwest, Mid-Atlantic, etc. You would be changing the meanings of many articles if you changed those references (like you did in the Dallas and DART articles), and going against years of historical use and generally accepted terms and customs.

I would suggest that you make a different map of the US with the 4 "official" regions, not simply replace the map of the "traditional" regions. Then create new articles for the official regions and retain the articles about Southwest and Mid-Atlantic etc. with references that those are commonly used but unofficial terms (like some of those articles have). Then add links to the official region names.

I think this would be simpler, more helpful and understandable to the general public, and a lot easier than facing the tide of resistance you'll face when changing all references to the Southwest, Mid-Atlantic, Midwest, etc.

Thanks, Jfitts 16:16, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I always have wanted to discuss this as I knew that it would be controversial. Also I have ridden DART and it is very nice! First of all it is not my intention to obliterate the Southwest or all references to it. The four regions should come into play only when broad generalizations are necessary. Otherwise their should be a listing of the states or parts of states that apply. If the meaning southwest was broadened to include California, as it sometimes is, then DART was not the first light rail in the southwest. Even if Texas were placed into the four region system, Atlanta would still have beaten it by two years. It was however the first light rail in Texas and therefore I changed it to Texas.

Now as to the history of US regions the southwest region, as it is applied on WP, is not historic but came into vogue in the mid-twentieth century. As late as the 1940’s both Arkansas and Louisiana were considered “southwestern states.” In many of the Articles include Nevada, Utah, and Colorado as southwestern states. In it’s broadest sense the 19th century included: Arkansas, Arizona, California, Colorado, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, and Utah. This came about as the traditional boundary between east and west in 19th Century geography was the Mississippi River. All except about a fifth, including Baton Rouge and New Orleans in that eastern fifth, of Louisiana were west of the river. The concept of the “West” region as it is portrayed here is not even in context with the southwest region. By looking in any encyclopedia that has this display you would see that the “West” region is subdivided into the Mountain and Pacific regions. In this scheme it is likely that the south would be called Southeast and occasionally Kentucky and West Virginia would be place in the Mid West while Virginia would go with the Mid Atlantic states.

Also the South Central region is not listed and what of the Pacific Northwest? If WP keeps this current grid of regions soon people will start carving and gerrymandering, the map to create new or should I say old regions. These regions are set in stone, there is no debate about who goes where because the government has already decided. If we decided to use the regional statistics the Census Bureau compiles, we would find we couldn’t because the southwest has been carved out of the South and West and New England (which if any region is historic it is this one) and the Mid Atlantic are carved out of the Northeast, the data is worthless.

I’m not saying that these regions should be deleted, but should be treated as unofficialregions that in some instances share cultures. However they should be listed with other regions that the state is or was in for example.

Texas is a state in the US South. Texas is some times considered in the Southwest or South Central Regions. In the 19th Century Texas was briefly part of the Trans-Mississippi Region.

If Wiki adopted this it would be easier and more accurate for everyone. ---JCarriker December 23, 2003.

But, it should be noted that this is not widely accepted socially - Delaware may be considered part of the "South" by the census bureau, but you'd have a heck of a time convincing either Delawareans or Southerners of the fact. RobLinwood 19:31, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Federalism

The article has stated: "Under the United States Constitution, the federal government can legislate only on matters explicitly delegated to it by the Constitution, with the remaining governmental powers belonging to each individual state." This gives a misleading picture of the status of federalism as of 2004, particularly with word "explicitly". The federal government exercises its supremacy in ways that many people would argue go far beyond any explicit Constitutional delegation. Some of these people would praise the increased centralization, some would condemn it, but no one seriously disputes that the federal government is not now the narrowly limited entity that it was before the decision in McCulloch v. Maryland. I've reworded the passage to be more accurate. JamesMLane 17:59, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The effect of the 14th Amendment was that a very large group of people became United States citizens - which had the effect of extending the power of the United States to all of the areas and territories which this citizenship occupied. The Consitution did not delegate this power to the Federal government until the 14th Amendment was radified. The word "civil" pertains to government - the effect of a war about "government" is that government changed. The "free states" were never reorganized after the civil war and this changed government in many ways as no new input of law has occurred from these free states. The government has simply filled the void created by the fact that the people are no longer self governing. User:216.78.8.110

[edit] Typo in map?

according to the homepage of the university in Massachusetts ( http://www.umass.edu/ ), Massachusetts is spelled Massachusetts, not Massachussetts User:62.134.88.13

Dictionary.Reference.com says the same. RickReinckens 03:41, 9 February 2006 (UTC)'

[edit] Removed a link

This URL no longer works. It was in the External Links section

• Enlarged map of northeast

--Patik 20:36, Dec 19, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Largest city in Montana

According to this, Billings has a much larger population than Helena. I'm assuming that the "Largest city" list is by population. -- Kirill Lokshin 03:04, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

You're right. I wasn't looking at the edits too closely and thought the edit was about the capital of Montana. Sorry. Mateo SA | talk 00:32, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Texas v. White

The case says that no state may lawfully leave the union, let this article says that it may not leave " at least under the circumstances" that seems a little too iffy for me Mbisanz 04:08, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Actually, the case is Texas v. White — Mateo SA | talk 21:24, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry about my citing error, but the underlying question of how to refer to the case still exists Mbisanz 08:06, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry if I sounded pedantic; I didn't actually look at the article paragraph until now. The relevant passage in Texas v. White is:

The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration, or revocation, except through revolution, or through consent of the States.

Looking at the paragraph, especially its mention of the Declaration of Independence, I think the writer was referring to the last part of that sentence from Texas v. White. However, the writer is confusing the distinct concepts of "revolution" and "secession". The southern states, in their ordinances of secession, were careful to assert that they were exercising their right of secession under the Constitution and not a general right of revolution. In their view, secession was a fully constitutional act; revolution would have been an act against the Constitution. The passage from TvW doesn't say that there is a right of secession through revolution. It says that no state has a unilateral right to secede, and can only withdraw from the Union through revolution or with the consent of the other states. I've consequently revised that paragraph. Mateo SA | talk 15:59, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Maryland Named After a British Monarch?

I was under the impression that Maryland was named after the Virgin Mary, due to Maryland being a society of catholics originally. I do not think it was named after Queen Mary and the state does not belong on that list. KStingily 00:01 September 03, 2005

You should factcheck before saying it doesn't belong on the list. The article on Maryland points out, "The new colony was named in honour of Henrietta Maria, Queen Consort of Charles I.". She was a Catholic, and likely named after the Virgin Mary, but it was not a direct line to the Virgin Mary. --Golbez 08:28, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

I was saying that because I was taught by my professor that it was named directly after Queen Mary, but he obviously was wrong. Sorry about that. I wasn't saying it shouldn't be on the list, I was saying that that was what I thought and that if it happened to be the case it should be removed, but evidently I was wrong. KStingily 00:26 September 05, 2005

I was probably a little harsh in my comment, but you didn't say "is this right", you said "it doesn't belong on the list". :P But hey, we both learned something here! And it was A queen Mary, but not necessarily THE queen Mary people think of when they hear "Queen Mary". --Golbez 06:30, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

No harm, no foul, I wasn't very clear. KStingily 22:49 September 05, 2005

At the very least, the name has a double meaning, with "after the Queen" being more politically acceptable at the time and often later, therefore being the official explanation that went into the history books. Note that colonists landed on March 25 (the Annunciation, a Marian feast day), and that they soon set up St. Mary's City. — Eoghanacht ^talk 17:15, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Since we're moving country subdivision articles into the format "{subdivision}s of the {country}", might as well move this, right? A lot of people might contest this, though. —-seav 18:53, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Add Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~

• Neutral (changed from weak oppose). I'd normally be in favor of standardization, but States of the United States sounds like something from the Department of Redundancy Department. –Hajor 02:17, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
• Support. It's not redundant just because the name of the country includes the word "state" - "United States" is a single proper name, while the first "States" is a generic noun. Redundant would be something like "U.S. States in the United States". -- Tyler 03:42, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose for now. --Golbez 01:53, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose "U.S. state" flows more easily in references, and if the title changes, there will undoubtedly soon follow those who will"fix" links to the article with inelegant circumlocutions. older≠wiser 03:03, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
• Weak oppose--my thots are similar to Hajor and older!=wiser's, and I type this dozens of times daily, and would hate to have to type [[States of the United States|U.S. state]], but I would be open to seeing links to examples of Since we're moving country subdivision articles into the format "{subdivision}s of the {country}" to see if they make me reconsider. 24.17.48.241 07:12, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
  • I voted oppose, but y'all do realize that you could still use U.S. state as a redirect, right? --Golbez 07:25, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Of course. But there are editors who seem to derive some sort of fulfillment from going around changing redirects into direct links--sometimes using piped links (which is OK, but rather pointless, IMO) and sometimes using tortured syntax (which is very bad). This being a Wiki, my oppose vote is for keeping the article at the form that is most easily used rather than moving to some awkwardly phrased, oddly redundant form merely to stave off the hobgoblins of trivial inconsistency. older≠wiser 14:04, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Of course. But I am one of those people that try to avoid sending links thru redirects, as the extra DB hit is a waste of Wikipedia server/bandwidth resources and the reader's time, and I think the 'redirected from {blah}' message is an unwanted distraction for new readers. 24.17.48.241 18:51, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. Proposed name violates Wikipedia policy of using the singular for article titles. And the current name is easier to type.  :) User:Zoe|^(talk) 22:54, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
  • So all the other ones like Provinces of Afghanistan are bad? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying if that's the case, other things need to be renamed. --Golbez 00:13, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Comparing this to that article, at least, strikes me as apples and oranges--based on it's content (throughout its history) it would probably be better titled List of Provinces of Afghanistan (or with l/c 'p') since it doesn't include a definition of the subject, while U.S. state is a very detailed article about what US states are, how they came to be that way, and many other details. 24.17.48.241 18:51, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
• Support -ryan-d 11:58, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose States of the United States sounds idiotic. :) jengod 01:33, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose strongly. Wikipedia:Naming conventions clearly states that singular names are nearly always preferred. Moreover, it is very, very well established that articles are named with the subject first and clarifications of usage in paretheses after. If this article should be renamed at all, it should be to State (United States). --Tysto 21:32, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

• Comment - since this is a potentially controversial move, and few people have spoken on the subject, I'm going to extend the consensus period for another five days to be safe. Rob Church ^Talk 01:35, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

• Comment - I proposed this because U.S. State is apparently the only remaining country subdivision article not following the naming convention. Many of the other country subdivision articles were at the singular version before (Province of the Philippines, Philippine municipality) but were renamed (to Provinces of the Philippines and Municipalities of the Philippines respectively). Yes, "U.S. state flows more easily in references" and that's what's we have been using "Philippine municipality" for. As for the "apples and oranges" comment, have you seen Municipalities of the Philippines? Unlike Provinces of Afghanistan, it does not contain a list of municipalities; it talks about the municipalities. The opposing reasons have *not* been used to justify an opposition to moving all those other articles, so what makes U.S. state so special? --seav 00:36, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

• The pluralized versions of the articles you name are out of standard with Wikipedia:Naming conventions and should be moved back. --Tysto 21:32, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. -- Stefán Ingi 00:02, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Very Annoyed

What I came here needing was a list of the states and when they joined the Union. Could someone please add this? -155.42.91.56 17:19, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

There's a link at the bottom in the "Other lists" section to List of U.S. states by date of statehood, which sounds exactly like what you need. --Golbez 18:26, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] what the...??

"Many states' names are those of Native American tribes or are from Native American languages: Kansas, Massachusetts, Hawaii, Connecticut, Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Mississippi, Texas, and others"

excuse me??, Texas was an indian name??... i thought it was called Texas because it used to be a part of mexico called "TEJAS", but since americans have a problem pronouncing the spanish "J" sound, it was changed to Texas (samething with "Mejico", whose name is now "Mexico" for some reasson...). Of course, i could be horribly mistaken.

ill be damned, i am horribly mistaken, but no so much... lets see:

"The state name derives from a word in a Caddoan language of the Hasinai, táyshaʔ (or tejas, as the Spaniards spelled it), meaning friends or allies. Spanish explorers mistakenly applied the word to the people and their location."

So i was wrong, but right in that the mexicans used to call it Tejas.

The "x" letter is not from any problem about pronuncing, but for the former sign in spanish for the sound "j". Look at any edition of Cervantes´ famoust work from ssXVI-XVII and you´ll se "Quixote" instead of modern "Quijote" transcription.

[edit] Louisiana

I figured I would make a discussion subject about it before I went ahead with any changes - As we all know, New Orleans was hit by Hurricane Katrina, and many of the city's residents do not plan on returning to NOLA. In fact, the current population of New Orleans is hovering around 70,000 - over twenty-two thousand less than LSU's Tiger Stadium holds.

Baton Rouge, the capital, has become the largest city, practically overnight, in Louisiana. Does anybody else we should change the page to reflect this, or perhaps put an asterik next to New Orleans as the largest city?

We probably should change it and put an asterisk, with an explanation, because census figures will show New Orleans.RickReinckens 08:09, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Procedure for admission of new states

Hi. I came to this article looking for a particular explanation (maybe this should be included in the article, unless it is being discussed elsewhere, in which case I'd appreciate it if someone would direct me to the correct venue). I was actually reading about Puerto Rico, more specifically the part about the referenda held there to decide the island's future. Well, one of the options presented to Puerto Ricans was Statehood in the United States, but what none of the articles made clear (at least not to me), is what would be the procedure if the population of Puerto Rico (or anywhere else, theoretically speaking) was to opt for statehood. I gather that the Referendum result would not be sufficient, per se, to instate Puerto Rico as a US state; possibly the U.S. Congress would have to approve it, probably taking into account certain factors. So I was wondering what would be the modern procedure for anyone to acquire statehood in the US (and I suppose Puerto Rico is a prime example, since they could, theoretically, choose "Statehood" in the next Referendum to be held there — could they be turned down by Congress, for instance?). Thanks, Redux 04:54, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

That is probably not an appropriate topic for an article on "U.S. state". It probably is somewhere in the article on the U.S. Constitution, since that states the procedure for admission as a state. The same procedure would apply that was used for Alaska and Hawaii in 1959. RickReinckens 08:14, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Ah. I didn't know that the US Constitution addressed it — although it obviously should, my mistake. I'll look into the appropriate article then. Thanks, Rick. Redux 12:45, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Honestly, this doesn't strike me as a terrible thing to cover at least in outline in this article. Particularly the non-US reader may be confronted here with certain historical facts -- there used to be 13 states, now there are 50 -- and wonder how the one state (ha) of affairs came to the other. --Jfruh 01:45, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of U.S. states by population growth

I added a link in the list page for an aritcle called List of U.S. states by population growth. No such article exsists that I can find but I have found multiple articles that refer to such statistics and I'd like a list. These pages mention it.

Phoenix metropolitan area -- The population of the Phoenix metropolitan area increased by 45% from 1990 through 2000, compared to the average United States rate of only 15%, helping to make Arizona the second fastest growing state in the nation in the 90s (the fastest was Nevada).

Phoenix, Arizona -- It ranks as the eighth fastest growing metropolitan area in the U.S, growing 34 percent between 1990 and 2000.

Nevada -- Nevada is a state located in the western United States. The population as of July 2004 was estimated to be 2,334,771, up nearly 17% from the 2000 census figure of 1,998,257. Nevada is the fastest growing state in the country. Between 2000 and 2003, Nevada's population increased 12.2%, while the USA's population increased 3.3%. Between 1990 and 2000, Nevada's population increased 66.3%, while the USA's population increased 13.1%.

67.142.130.23 18:40, 31 December 2005 (UTC) JCP

This page seems to have the information needed to make such a list United States 2000 Census 67.142.130.23 19:14, 31 December 2005 (UTC) JCP

[edit] origin of Idaho's name unknown?

I dunno about that. Isn't it fairly certain that it was made up by George M. Willing, who tried to pass it off as a Native American word, but later admitted he made it up? See the article. -VJ 03:37, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Texas division unconstitutional?

I just noticed this in the article, on Texas being divided:

"...it may also be unconstitutional, as reducing the equal suffrage of the other states in the United States Senate."

This is just nonsense. The equal suffrage clause means that no state can have more or fewer senators than any other state. If Texas were divided into several other states, each state would have two senators; the situation is exactly analagous to the creation of Maine out of Massachusetts.

I am really itching to strike this whole section fro the article, honestly. Texas' supposed right to subdivide is entirely a historic artifact -- it could have entered the Union as more than one state, but chose not to. Today its right to break up into several states is exactly the same as every other states: constitutionally permitted upon votes in favor by the state legislature and the US congress. --Jfruh 03:49, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Since nobody has spoken up about this, I am going to zap this section. --Jfruh 02:04, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, since people will no doubt re-add it if it goes, I'm going to add a modified version to the Trivia section. It's definitely a trivial point for all practical purposes. --Jfruh 02:13, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What makes up the U.S.? (splitting hairs)

The first paragraph makes the statement "...along with the District of Columbia, form the United States of America." Should it be "...along with the District of Columbia and Palmyra Atoll, form the United States of America."? Palmyra is an incorporated territory that was annexed as part of the territory of Hawaii, but was excluded from the state.

This is not a retorical question -- I really am not sure if the revised statement is technically correct from a international legal perspective. I may just be splitting hairs anyway. — Eoghanacht ^talk 17:15, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

It was once there I think, but maybe people considered it a bit too pedantic. Or maybe I'm thinking of United States. --Golbez 17:28, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I checked the history. The reference was originally added on August 30, 2005 and subsequently expanded upon — but was deleted on December 22, 2005 by User:J. Passepartout (an infrequent editor) as a "minor" edit. — Eoghanacht ^talk 17:55, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

This was discussed for the intro of United States as well. There it was bolied down to a generic reference to territories of varying statuses of affiliation. In an article on U.S. states, it doesn't really seem particularly relevant to mention a tiny island with no permanent population. Perhaps it comes down to qualifying what is meant by "form[ing] the United States of America." In terms of a federal republic and the exercise of politcal power, the USA is the union of the 50 states (D.C. has a limited and very special role in the federal government). Palmyra Atoll is also a part of the area directly controlled by the federal government, but as a territory, it is not a constituent part of the federal government on the same level as the states. It could be argued that populated unincorporated territories with non-voting delegates, actually have greater participation in the federal government than incorporated Palmyra Atoll. It's status is unique, but I'm not so sure it is important enough to point out in the intro to this article. Not that I'm opposed to mentioning it, only that it not make the intro unnecessarily awkward. Just my thoughts. older ≠ wiser 18:15, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

To recap what you wrote: Palmyra (as annexed territory) is geographically fully part of the United States. But it has no standing it terms of governing the country, which is the function of the 50 states -- and partially the District because it can select presidential electors. Looking at it in those terms, I can live without the reference in the article, but also would not loose any sleep over including it somewhere. — Eoghanacht ^talk 18:49, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, very succinctly put. older ≠ wiser 18:55, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Failed GA

Clearly needs better refrences as it is basicly another see also section and I'm not a big fan of trivia sections to start, also too many 2 sentence paragraphs --Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 03:02, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hawaii is not Native American

Hawaii is included on a list of state's whose names have a Native American origin. This is obviosuly incorrect. A page with etymologies confirms that it is Polynesian. Anson2995 22:38, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Polynesians are the indigenous people in Hawaii, Hawaii is part of America, therefore Polynesians from Hawaii are Native Americans, making "Hawaii" a name of Native American origin. --67.165.6.76 04:39, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

That is so silly. Native Americans are the people who inhabited the American continents (North and South) before white people showed up; they are the people who came over a land bridge from Northeast Asia. Hawaiians are Polynesians who just happen to be under U.S. control because of a very unpleasant (and probably illegal) takeover back in 1898. But because the writers of the Constitution never contemplated that the U.S. might actually expand beyond the North American continent, they gave the Feds jurisdiction only over "Indian tribes," not all indigenous peoples who might fall under U.S. control. That's why Native Hawaiians keep agitating to be given "Native American" status even though no serious historian would consider them to be such, so that they will have semi-autonomous governments like real Native Americans, and then they can open lucrative enterprises like casinos (imagine something like Las Vegas with beaches and macadamia nuts and mahi mahi). The more elegant solution (to avoid such bizarre legal contortions) would be to amend the Constitution to directly grant the Native Hawaiians semi-autonomous status and some land of their own (like what happened with Nunavit), but then all the white and Asian people in Hawaii would never let such a proposal get out of Congress. Which is quite unfortunate (I happen to agree it would go a long way towards fair compensation to the Hawaiians for what was stolen from them), but that's the way it is. --Coolcaesar 05:44, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] United States article on featured candidate nominations list

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United States

Cast your vote! The more responses, the more chances the article will improve and maybe pass the nomination.--Ryz05 _t 22:58, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

The [[state (United States)|]] of [[California]]... 

The state of California...

[edit] Made the whole title bold again

Wikipedia tradition is to bold the first mention of the article title in the lead paragraph. Since this is an article about states of the United States, not just mere states, I thought I should make that clear. --Coolcaesar 02:57, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why I fixed Budaih's offensive edits

It is extremely offensive to Americans to insert text that confuses states with provinces, as well as very inaccurate. The difference is that American states are separate sovereigns with full plenary powers apart from those they have voluntarily ceded to the federal sovereign by ratifying the Constitution. In contrast, most other countries devolve power to provinces from a national sovereign. --Coolcaesar 01:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Coolcaesar can go ahead and be offended. Buaidh just happens to work for one of those 50 semi-autonomous U.S. provinces. My job is to protect the citizens of our state. One of my duties is to review proposed legislation for language that could diminish the rights of our state.

My dog is a subnational entity. This is silly, meaningless, and pretentious language. Buaidh 05:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Last time I checked, one of the major issues in the American Civil War was the political status of states. Many important issues in contemporary American politics, including medical marijuana, gun ownership, abortion, and euthanasia, are framed in terms of the sovereignty of states vis-a-vis the sovereignty of the federal government. A province is delegated power, while a state inherently possesses it. This is basic political science. --Coolcaesar 22:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

This argument presupposes that the terms "state" and "province" have immutable and quantifiable definitions, which is simply not true. Provinces in Canada, for instance, retain some of their own sovreignty in a manner similar to U.S. states. (Technically, they derive some of their sovereign rights directly from the monarch rather than from the federal government, but the effect is similar.)

Also, one might be careful about throwing around terms like "offensive," and presuming to speak for all Americans. Assume good faith. I didn't necessarily agree with the content of the edits, but I certainly wasn't offended by them. --Jfruh (talk) 22:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Northern Virginia Succession

There is also talk of Northern Virginia succeeding from the rest of the commonwealth because of issues over where Northern Virginia tax money goes and vast cultural differences. Although it is probably not practical, thought it should be included in that section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.66.211.90 (talk) 23:52, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] States table

I moved the states table to states of the United States of America (50 United States) and added two maps and more references. This move is designed to help less sophisticated users (such as school children) find basic information about, and links to, the 50 United States without having to scroll through our elaborate discussions about the evolution of states' rights and other arcane issues. I hope everyone finds this acceptable. Buaidh 17:14, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand, the table used to be right at the top of this article. I'm reverting this until we can have some discussion. --Golbez 03:52, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

The last time the list of states was near the top was 2005-11-12. I updated the table of states to the latest version. Let's discuss please. Buaidh 05:54, 27 February 2007 (UTC)