Talk:U.S. Route 101

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Contents 1 Requested move 2 Cardinal directions 3 Alternative 4 Merging 5 Move 6 Major Cities/Towns 7 Common name 8 Link Spam? 9 Disputed language 10 Solona beach 11 Clarification against US 1 12 "The 101" vs "101" 13 "Aligned along"? 14 Encinitas? I don't think so! 15 California section 16 Southern terminus?

[edit] Cardinal directions

Something I've wondered: at the north end of the route, in Washington, 101 circles around the Olympic Mountains. For several miles it runs east-west, and then for around 85 miles it runs north-south again. So...how do they designate that section, from Port Angeles to Olympia? Do they still call it North 101 even though you're headed due south, or are there two parallel segments of 101 that share the same north-south designation? Torc 08:09, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

The area from Port Angeles to Olympia is signed South 101. Everyday I travel to school from the Olympia terminus of 101, North on 101 to Evergreen State College and 101 is signed North on that section. If I continued driving on North 101 from Olympia, I would eventually be on West 101 and then South 101 (toward Oregon) if I continued to travel in the same direction on the road. I had wondered that as well until I actually took a drive around the peninsula. -Rkitko 16:16, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

---

"Because Highway 101 forms the main street of almost all of the coastal towns in Oregon (with the exception of Cannon Beach), it is frequently congested and slow."

For what it's worth, 101 is not the main street of Manzanita either...

"The most scenic portion of Highway 101 within California is in Humboldt County, where... " -- This is debatable; the freeway does pass through the Golden Gate Bridge, after all. Making this "A scenic portion...". --Srini91 10:33, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

---

101 is not called the "Pacific Highway" within Oregon; the designation "Pacific Highway" is generally used with Oregon Highway 99 (including 99E and 99W). ODOT also applies the term "Pacific Highway" to Interstate 5 in Oregon, though this usage is generally not found among folks who aren't highway engineers or road geeks.

The most common term for 101 in Oregon is either "Pacific Coast Highway" or "Oregon Coast Highway". User:EngineerScotty 15:23, 24 Jun 2004 (PDT)

[edit] Alternative

101 isn't an alternative to 5 in the San Francisco Bay Area: 5 doesn't come anywhere near it.

Yes it is: you can take either I-5, then California State Route 152 to get to the Bay Area, or U.S. 101 all of the way (if you are coming from Los Angeles). If the Grapevine is closed due to snow, 101 becomes the only viable major route between SF and LA. -- hike395

Actually he's right to an extent. I-5 is the primary for the north and east bay regions. For the penninsula and south bay 101 is the primary route, the CA-152 to 5 route is the secondary route as it takes the same amount of time to get to LA using it and crossing 152 is very dangerous.Gateman1997 22:19, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, what I had originally meant was that you wouldn't take I-5 from any place in the Bay Area to any other place in the Bay Area. US-101 is the only freeway that goes from Santa Rosa to San Jose. ςפקιДИτς ☺ ☻ 17:05, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

FWIW, with the improvements to 152, I'd say it's definitely supplanted 101 as the primary route for the southern penninsula and south bay to get to LA. The road isn't nearly as slow or dangerous as it used to be. Torc 08:09, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

---

Wrote a new page, U.S. Highway 101 (Oregon) which describes the route through Oregon in great detail. Roadgeeks from Washington and California might consider doing the same for their states (much of the California material on the main page might be moved, to shorten the main page).

--192.65.41.20 22:17, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merging

I'm proposing a merge of the Oregon section to the main article so that we have consistancy among US Highways and Interstates that cross state lines. We had previously come to a loose consensus that interstate roads (both Interstates and US Highways) would only have 1 article as to keep Wikipedia less cluttered.Gateman1997 22:19, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I was the one who separated out (and greatly expanded) the Oregon-specific content; I did the same to U.S. Highway 97 and U.S. Highway 30. I have no objection per se, but I have a few questions and concerns:

• On the US Highway pages, there is frequently very little state-specific information (just a summary if nothing more); in comparison, many state highway pages are significantly more detailed. Were US Highway pages to be expanded to include the detail in the various state highway pages (especially the California pages, which are highly detailed), it might make for some very long pages--especially for transcontinental routes like U.S. Highway 30 which traverse numerous states.
• More specifically, many US highway pages don't list things like intersections with state routes, etc.

Where this level of detail should go--in a per-state page, or on the main page--I don't have a strong opinion. I do like the main page being a national summary, with the ability to drill down on state pages--but if a super-long national page is what folks prefer, I've no issue. What I do want to ensure is that detailed information on interstate and US routes remains welcome on Wikipedia--it wouldn't make sense that extremely detailed pages like Oregon Highway 99 can exist for state routes, but pages with similar detail couldn't exist for federal ones. --EngineerScotty 22:37, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

• • Agreed on splitting as information starts piling up. Not sure if U.S. Highway 101 (Oregon) or U.S. Highway 101 in Oregon would be a better title. --SPUI (talk) 01:08, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Agree with merge... but long pages are bad... keep in mind that a CASR and WASR WP will eventually come and add stuff. --Rschen7754 03:42, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
  • True, but I think it's time we start deciding what we want to include in an article too. I think we may be over doing it with info. For instance there is no real need to have EVERY state highway interchange listed on the pages. It's irrelevant to most people and frankly I think it clutters the page more then it adds to the page's overall usefulness. Gateman1997 07:55, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

• • To put it another way: To what extent should Wikipedia be a road geek site? Much of the detail on some of the pages is of absolutely no use to the general public (nor to transportation engineers/officials, who have access to the more accurate primary sources maintained by transportation authorities)--it's only of interest to road geeks. Things like mileage logs, exit lists, detailed lane configurations, etc. could be considered to be unencyclopedic. It's nice to have such information in wiki form (as opposed to closed websites like aaroads, etc--though they do a nice job), but is the Wikipedia the right place for this? Perhaps a road geek wiki (hosted by wikipedia, but in a separate namespace) should contain this stuff instead, with wikipedia only hosting general-interest content on major routes? -- --EngineerScotty 17:40, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
    • That's how I'm starting to feel. I'm a road geek for sure (heck I have several highway shields and a traffic light in my house), but I think the infoboxes are starting to get out of control, as is the detail of the information. Encyclopedias tend to be gateway's to knowledge, not the accumulation of all knowledge. A seperate road wiki might be the answer. Have the super detailed articles there and more basic info on Wikipedia. Gateman1997 17:50, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
    • A question: How big is the road geek community here on Wikipedia? I've been doing Oregon stuff; lots of people have been working on California; there's quite a bit of material on Washington. I haven't looked at non-West Coast states yet; but I assume that many others are also well-represented. Several of us are having this discussion here; but are there lots of others who might contribute to developing a consensus, and/or proposing such a project? What about other countries--some of us might find reading about the M4 motorway just as interesting as, say, I-5. --EngineerScotty 20:24, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
      • Check out the WPs: Wikipedia:WikiProject Highways. I would not be opposed to such a project as long as the work we have already doesn't get thrown out. --Rschen7754 23:39, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Move

If anyone wants to know why I reverted the move, see Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Highways. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 21:21, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Please get a consensus before moving the page! --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 21:38, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

There was never any consensus to move this page in the first place. I was simply moving it back to its original name. Nohat 18:28, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Major Cities/Towns

Not to nitpick, but the article infobox on the side lists Olympia, WA as a major city/town (over 100,000 pop.). Olympia has a population of 42,514 as of 2000. When considering the municipalities listed here, is it really strictly binding around the 100,000 population mark? If so, are you counting the metro area in population estimates? Could this be considered misleading? Just curious. I wasn't going to change anything because Olympia is an important landmark for 101. Rkitko 10:27, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

• Strictly speaking Olympia shouldn't be on there.Gateman1997 16:35, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Common name

As of 10-Jan-2006, a A Google search for "U.S. Route 101" returns 772 results, whereas a similar search for "U.S. Highway 101" returns over 98,000 links. Clearly the most common name of this highway is "U.S. Highway 101" not "U.S. Route 101". Indeed, it seems as though the name "U.S. Route 101" is not just a minority usage, but a virtually unused marginal usage. Per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), I have moved this article accordingly. Nohat 18:39, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I do believe he's right in this case. Similar to California Highway 17 this article should remain here. I've lived in the Bay Area over 20 years and never heard 101 referred to as a "route" before this article was moved. Neither have I heard it referred to as "route" when visiting WA state or SoCal.Gateman1997 19:01, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

This is opening a can of worms here- therefore we could move any article to whatever just because some people call it that. It's just opening the door to more confusion here. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 03:37, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

What's confusing is when an article has a title that has nothing to do with what the vast majority of people actually call the subject of the article. That's why we have the "common names" naming convention. The fear that obeying this convention will somehow leave Wikipedia an unnavigable mess is unfounded. Nohat 05:54, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Specifically, an uneditable mess. So we could just move U.S. Route 50 to Loneliest Road just because people call it that? This is why we need to use discretion with common names. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 06:14, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

No. "U.S. Route 50" gets 37,000-some results from Google whereas "Loneliest Road" only gets about 19,000. However, "U.S. Highway 50" gets over 93,000, so the most common name of that road is "U.S. Highway 50", which is where it should be moved back to. Again, the fear that it will be too complicated is overstated. Wikipedia has gotten along quite well with this naming convention for several years, and it will continue to do so, because it's a good naming convention. It benefits those who are most important to the project: the readers. Nohat 06:21, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Then let's ask for all the routes to be moved back to "Highway" then. If we do one, let's do them all. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 06:40, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

How about internationally-speaking? What's the general naming convention for major roads in other countries--highway or route? Which would they be able to identify with more? Or does that not matter here because these articles are traditionally of regional/national interest? Rkitko 07:17, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I would say they're regional interest. However Google is international and it also seems to favor highway.Gateman1997 08:21, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree that all the U.S. Routes articles should be moved back. However, if there are a few cases where the "route" name can be shown to be significantly more common than "highway", then I would say they should be kept at "route" titles, such as U.S. Route 66. Nohat 09:11, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Please fix the double redirects when you move a page. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 07:07, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Link Spam?

Could the last edit by 70.176.158.100 be considered Link spam? From what I can see, this person has only made edits which create links to the same site: Western Exit Guide - US-101 California (or links to Western Exit Guide, but to a different section). Otherwise, I think this site could be a valuable resource, though I question the intentions of the poster (altruism or trying to get more hits for their webpage?) Forgive me if I've misread the link spam page. I'm relatively new to wikipedia and still finding my way... Thanks! Rkitko 09:02, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

The site doesn't appear to be selling anything or even contain any ads. It also contains information that is relevant to the article that is not already duplicated in the article. Regardless of the poster's motives, I can't really imagine deleting it for being linkspam. Nohat 09:08, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that up! Makes a lot of sense. Rkitko 09:17, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed language

I take issue with the following:

U.S. Route 101 once was the major north-south link along the Pacific coast. It has been replaced in importance by the highways of the Interstate Highway System, specifically Interstate 5 (I-5), which are more modern in their physical design. Note that this highway is still in use as an alternative to the Interstates throughout its entire length. One of the notable exceptions is where the alignment of I-5 is on the alignment of U.S. Route 101 (that is, the pavement is the same but the route number changed to I-5 and U.S. Route 101 was decommissioned) beginning about one mile (1.6km) east of downtown Los Angeles and continuing south to San Diego.

North of LA, 101 hasn't been replaced by any Interstate; nor is there any Interstate (other than the various x80s in the Bay Area) that come close. Also, north of Sacramento and the Bay area, U.S. Route 99 (which has been replaced as a primary connector by I-5) and not 101 is the primary north-south link; at least if you want to reach major Northwest cities such as Medford, Eugene, Salem, Portland, Vancouver WA, Olympia, Tacoma, or Seattle--none of which (save for Olympia) 101 comes anywhere close to.

101, north of LA, has always served a different corridor than does I-5 or 99. Perhaps it was at one point the primary route between LA and San Francisco, before I-5 and I-580 were built. But other than that, I-5 and 101 are so far apart that the claim above needs modification. --EngineerScotty 19:51, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

The Pacific Highway - the main north-south route in the west - ran mostly along US 99, only using US 101 south of San Francisco. This is because US 101 is right along the ocean north of SF, and is thus harder to build (due to more bridges) than an inland route. --SPUI (T - C - RFC) 13:05, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, US101 is significantly inland through Marin County and other points north of SF; CA 1 and US 101 diverge for quite a distance, with CA 1 hugging the coast. However, part of your point is correct--the Pacific coastline gets more rugged and difficult to build on the further north you go. Through much of Oregon, the coastline is essentially mountains rising out of the ocean, which is a major reason that Oregon coastal towns are mostly small. --EngineerScotty 13:16, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Solona beach

User:86.82.170.205 wrote the following in the article; I've moved it here:

I lived in Solana Beach for a few years and 101 is still very much NOT decommisioned! it is the coastal highway, the route you take if you want to avoid the jams on I5 and if you want to enjoy the coastline and wonderful restaurants. It goes from north San Diego all the way to Oceanside non-stop.

To which I respond

The former roadway exists; however it is no longer designated as US 101. It may be designated locally as "Old Highway 101", and locals may refer to it as Highway 101, but as a matter of law, US 101 ends in Los Angeles. --EngineerScotty 21:49, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification against US 1

Under the normal convention of things, Highway 101 should be a spur or other related route of US 1. Of course, that's impossible since they're on opposite sides of the country. Perhaps someone could find out (and put on the page) why the designation was allowed. --WhosAsking 16:32, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

• I've been looking for years and I don't think there is any official explaination other then 101 comes after 99 in the odd number scheme. Perhaps they built US99 not knowing that they'd need one more number further west? I don't think it's something we need concern ourselves with however as it's largely irrelevant to anyone but super road geeks.Gateman1997 18:10, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
  • All the stuff at [2], as well as the 1925 log, indicates that US 101 was always in the system from the earliest plans:
    • So I went ahead on that basis. As you know, the U.S. is about twice as wide as it is from North to South, and with this I saw a complete pattern of just what I wished. It stares one in the face, it is so simple and so adjustable. With north-south roads numbered odd from east to west, and east-west roads numbering even from north to south, you at once start a simple, systematic, complete, expansible pattern for a long time development.
    • Numbered on the 10's; 10, 20, 30, etc., to 90 would provide nine principal east-west routes. Numbered on the 11's and 5's; 1, 5, 11, 15, etc., to 101 on the Pacific Coast, you would provide the 20 [sic - 101 makes 21] base routes for the north-south pattern. [3]
  • --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 07:14, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "The 101" vs "101"

Regarding this change (c.f. to previous version): based on personal observation and confirmation from Northern California residents, "the 101" is also used there, not only in SoCal. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.96.188.245 (talk • contribs) 18:29, 28 February 2006.

As a Fifty year resident of the Bay Area, I only hear it called "The 101" by transplants from Southern California. Schmiteye 03:48, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

And "SoCal" and "NorCal" are also foreign to me. Those same people call "El Camino"..."The El Camino". Doink! Schmiteye 03:51, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I concur with Schmiteye's reversion. The "the freeway name" vs. "freeway name" distinction being a northern California/southern California linguistic distinction is well known. Nohat 06:35, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I heard the KRON 4 weatherman say "The 280" yesterday. Grrrrrr! Schmiteye 17:12, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Probably a transplant from SoCal. Locals of the north NEVER user "the" before a route's number. It's just not done and is well known and documented. Gateman1997 02:29, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I have never, ever heard anyone in Northern California say "the 101." The unsigned poster perhaps knows people who grew up in Southern California and now live in the Bay Area. Old habits die hard. Moncrief 13:05, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I grew up in San Diego County during the 50s and 60s, and I never heard anyone use "the" as part of a numbered highway's name. It was always (nunmber), are sometimes "Highway X" or "US X" or "State X" as appropriate. Wschart 17:56, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Aligned along"?

What does it mean to be "aligned along" the coast? US 101 is not Highway 1; it doesn't weave along the coastline in most places. It's merely a north-south highway relatively close to the coast, but why say it's "aligned along" the coast (a vague phrase) or compare it to the East Coast's Highway 1. If anything US 1 in California is such a highway, not 101. Moncrief 22:16, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

It may not hug the coast at all points, but that's mostly because of topography, I assume. Brainstorm some ideas to replace the confusing language of "aligned along" here. I personally can't think of anything that would suit the description. One more thing, though: there is no US Route 1 in California. I assume you're speaking of California State Route 1. --Rkitko 00:07, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

It hugs the coast at very, very few points - not just "not at all points." I don't think you need anything about "alinging with the coast" at all. Any north-south highway in the United States, no matter how far inland, could be said to "align" (if by "align," you mean "be parallel to") with the coast. I'd just say it's a north-south highway. Considering how far it is from the coast in parts of northern California well north of the Bay Area, I wouldn't say anything at all about the coast in the intro. And I would NOT compare it to the East Coast's Highway 1, which is a much less-traveled road that is more like CA1 than US 101. Why compare it to a road 3000 miles away in the intro anyway? Moncrief 13:03, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, it may be prudent to note that in the California section, if you think it needs to be mentioned. I assume you live in California? I'm in Washington state and sometimes I operate from a Washington-centric perspective concerning these US Routes and it's hard for me to remove myself and look at the routes in other states. I think "align" is supposed to indicates that this US Route is the last US Route before the coast. I don't think it's meant to indicate that it's parallel to the coast. (I blame language for being too limiting). I also think the purpose of including US Route 1 in the intro is not to compare, but to include pertinent information. We are, afterall, talking about the two "bookend" Routes. It's also important that people reading the article realize that 101 is not a spur of 1--an important point since this is how a spur of US 1 would be numbered. --Rkitko 16:20, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

It should be noted that US 1 is nowhere near the easternmost US route. US 13 and US 17 (as well as secondary routes like US 301) are further east. --EngineerScotty 18:56, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

If speaking in terms of longitude, US 1 is the easternmost US route (in Maine), but obviously other routes cross over it to become the coastal route in states like Georgia, South Carolina, and North Carolina. However, my point is that the designation as US 1 or US 101 indicates that it is the first or last US route in the numbering scheme after (or before) the coast. While that may not true in all cases, it's generally true. I suppose I'm saying that I think this deserves to be noted, somehow, with exceptions noted? -Rkitko 19:05, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Are you certain that these highways were given their "1" and "101" names because they were meant to be the westernmost and easternmost US highways? Do you have a link for that? If you want to re-include the information, I would do so somewhere deep inside the article. Introductions are for important information about the subject itself. Moncrief 18:19, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

We are absoulutely NOT talking about the two "bookend" routes, neither on the west or, as EngineerScotty says, on the east coast. US 1 on the East Coast is not an equivalent of US 101 in any demonstrative way -- not in terms of the level of traffic, the general importance, the basis as a major freeway in two large metropolitan areas, or pretty much in any way at all other than the fact that both highways are relatively close to an ocean. And don't assume I live in California. Why does it matter where I live?

Could you point me to any definition of "align" that means "something that is the last something before something"? If you take "align" to mean "the last US route before the coast," you must have a different dictionary than I do. Why not just say "It's the last US highway before the coast"? Moncrief 18:06, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

It's obvious our opinions differ. I sense some hostility in your reply, so I respectively bow out of this conversation. I don't think it's going to be productive at all if we continue in this manner. Best, Rkitko 18:32, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Encinitas? I don't think so!

A photo toward the bottom of the article is claimed to be a photo of "the 101" in Encinitas. However, it is firmly established earlier in the article that the southern terminus of 101 is east of LA, considerably north of Encinitas, which is in San Diego county. If the photo is of a road that was FORMERLY a part of 101, then that should be clearly stated.

[edit] California section

It appears as if the California section on this article is almost as long as (if not longer) than the U.S. Highway 101 in California article, growing from IP user contributions who apparently miss out on the fact that there is an article specific to this topic. Would anyone like to help take a stab at merging what information isn't repeated into U.S. Highway 101 in California and leave only a small overview paragraph on this article? The link to the main article on 101 in California already exists, why duplicate the info? --Rkitko 20:28, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Opinions anyone? Bueller? Bueller? -Rkitko 04:05, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Southern terminus?

I came to this page specifically to see exactly where US 101 ended in California. The intro paragraph says "to the Mexican border", but in the info blurb box, it says it ends in Los Angeles. Upon further reading, it seems US 101 to Mexico has been decommissioned. Perhaps a knowledgeable user could explain or elaborate on its southern terminus and the history of its southern terminus? (also clean up the contradiction in the main article) Just a thought. Polihale

Yeah, I don't know what happened there. US 101 hasn't extended to the Mexican border since the 1960s, and it never went to the Canadian border. Does removing that sentence from the lead paragraph clear it up enough? Or were you looking for more? -- NORTH ^talk 23:02, 4 April 2007 (UTC)