Talk:Two-party system

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The disadvantages/advantages section needs a lot of work if it's going to stay. I'm sure if I were to forward this to the Election Methods List, they'd have a field day with this. -- RobLa

Why don't you already, Rob? I'd love for them to whip up the entire voting systems section. DanKeshet 14:34 Feb 15, 2003 (UTC)
It would be more effective if you joined the list and brought up the topic, and I seconded it.  :) -- RobLa 01:59 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)
Ha! Been there, done that, got an overloaded inbox. I still peruse the archives via the web, sometimes. Il send an e-mail to the list inviting them soon, though. DanKeshet 02:28 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)
hee hee...that's what procmail is for  :) -- RobLa 05:16 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)

Yes, I question the extent to which the listed "advantages" are such. - Montréalais


I have no idea if you have proposed a solution to "the money poblem" in any attempt to reform the "two party" morass.

Ever look at the "unopposed" Representatives? They stand immune to challenges because of thier "War Chest"

Eliminating unuse political campaign money unspent after an election would go along way to attractin viable opposition IMHO

Don AKA MAX founder http://www.wingsofanangel.com

common poster on alt.prisons ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Contents

[edit] UK a two-party system

Should the UK really be listed as an example? It's more "two and a half" parties - plus, the predecessor of the Lib Dems "half" party, the Liberal Party, did hold power at one stage. In any case, there is no definite reason why the situation may not change, with the Tories becoming the "half" party. Certainly the trend seems to be for an increasing Lib Dem vote. I believe the situation if the local election results were repeated in the next general election, suggests a hung parliament (no party having an outright majority). I really don't think it's quite a two-party system like the US. Are there ANY non-Republicrats in the US government currently? zoney ███ talk 01:38, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

There is one independent (a Socialist, really) in the House of Representatives and one independent in the Senate. Your point is taken, though. Funnyhat 08:04, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
And what's funny is that they're both from Vermont, iirc. Wouter Lievens 22:25, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Yes I wondered about setting up Canada as a 2+ party system, but not saying the same for the UK, even while the LibDem's were small there was probably enough local political parties (Welsh, Scots, N.Irish) around to upset the balance (I remember several times the conservative having to rely on N.Irish votes at least to get more dubious measures through). Certainly in the last couple of election cycles it is becoming even less so - although it could be argued we just might be in a period when one party is dying out to be replaced by another, like with the Labour/Whig's early last century. The most recent election, 2005, was Labour 356 (35.3% of vote, 54% seats), Con 198 (32.3%, 30%), LD 62 (22.1%, 9%), and others 30 (10.3%, 5%).
Compare this to Canada in 2006 with 74% of the seats going to the main two parties, has a greater percentage, but it's mainly regionalised - Bloc Quebecois only stood in 24% of seats, but gained two thirds of those (i.e. 16% of the total), outside that region Canada is more of a two party system than the UK. Equally the UK tends to be (sometimes) dominiated by local politics outside of England. Sfnhltb 18:11, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
A very simple answer. NO! As a political ssertion it is completely false.
But Wikipedia states it as "A two-party system is a form of party system where two major political parties dominate the voting in nearly all elections. As a result, all, or nearly all, elected offices end up being held by candidates endorsed by the two major parties". This is Labour and Conservatives and has been for about 90 years. UKWiki 10:21, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
That is BTW also the case in Canada. Since 1867, all Prime Ministers of Canada have been members of either the Liberal Party or a self-styled Conservative Party. 161.24.19.82 17:38, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Examples" paragraph needs work

Here is how it presently stands:

The two-party system has historically been common in the so-called Anglosphere nations such as United States and United Kingdom, as well as in many small or newly independent countries such as Jamaica. While Americans and Britons often see the two-party system as natural, based on their long experiences with it, it is in fact a product of the particular rules in place. The two parties that dominate thus have an incentive to keep the rules as they are, so as to prevent electoral losses to smaller parties.

Exactly which rules are in place in the United States that keep the two parties where they are? The point made earlier in the article about plurality voting is not an issue; the two parties legitimately *do* receive portions of the vote comparable to their representation. (In the 2004 election, for example, Bush and Kerry combined to receive 99.0% of the popular vote.) It's not like there are a bunch of third parties getting 20% of the vote or whatever.

Clarified article by pointing out that while number of votes sometimes equals representation, it is not assured to be (which leads to tactical voting...)--68.169.173.148 11:55, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

ALL parties in the United States not named the Republicans or Democrats have extremely small membership. I'm sure that they are discriminated against in some form or another, but the article presently does not explain how this is so. Funnyhat 08:03, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, the assertion is not justifiable as it stands. There may be a 'stable equilibrium' of its own accord, or there may be something constraining politicians into one of two camps, or there may be clear political polarisation, or the voting system may influence things, or there may be some sort of inertia. The UK and US experiences in the past half-century are different. And so on. Charles Matthews 13:52, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
One example of systematic bias toward a two-party system in the U.S. is the Presidential debates sponsored by an organization run jointly by the Democratic and Republican parties. The threshold for participation is that a candidate must be achieving at least 15% of the projected vote (not sure whether it's likely voters or all registered voters) in major public opinion polls. This practice has effectively kept out third party candidates polling in the single digits who might get some currency from such a debate. These changes I believe were brought about by the scare the two parties got from Ross Perot in the 1992 election. — Stevie is the man! Talk | Work 14:05, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Should the list of two-party states perhaps be moved to a separate page, listing in a table all countries in the world and the number of parties (none, one, dominant, two or multi, in accordance with the classification on the series box). If this were the case, caveats could be listed (such as the ones being discussed for the US?). It should be noted that for most countries, the classification is listed in their "List of political parties" page. Torfason 19:45, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Germany -- a two-party system?

Is Germany a two-party system? We have two major parties (social democrats and conservatives), although coalitions with smaller parties are oftenly formed (especially on a regional basis). The two "third" parties are the Greens and the liberals, although in some regions the democratic socialists and even the right-wing extremists get a hold as well (the former having formed regional coalition governments before).

Traditionally German regional governments are coalitions between one of the two major and one of the minor parties, whereas the national government is oftenly made up of a major party alone (the fading social democrats / Greens coalition being a counter example).

Traditionally the conservatives always choose the liberals as a coalition partner and the social democrats stick to the Greens, although that holds less true on a regional basis.

Germany has a law which states that a party has to hold more than 5% of the votes to enter a regional parliament, although there is an exception which allows individual representatives to be voted directly into the parliament (although, IIRC, they then act as individuals rather than members of their parties). The whole system was created in an attempt to prevent the mistakes of the former governmental systems from occuring again.

In practice the two largest parties receive most of the media attention tho, and the thirds are usually only discussed if they enter a coalition or do something particularily outrageous (such as the two nationalist parties forming an alliance to increase each other's chance of getting seats in the parliaments). -- Ashmodai 14:04, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Canada is a first past the post system

[edit] Canada Not A "Two Party Plus" System

I removed the following:

In Canada, only two parties (Liberals and Conservatives) have a realistic chance of winning, but the other parties often get enough seats that the party in power must consider their views — though rarely to the point where a European-style coalition government is necessary. Canada is sometimes described as a "two party plus" system.

I am of the opinion that the descriptor "two party plus" system is not at all accurate, and is based on a rather archaic quote from sometime in the 60s. If the author of the above can find a contemporary citation in which the media, political commentators, historian or academics currently use this term, I believe only then should the above paragraph be reconsidered for inclusion.

The Liberal Party has had a virtual monopoly on federal government power for about a century. The most significant Progressive Conservative governments (Diefenbaker and Mulroney) were politcal anomalies. So arguably one could say it is even more accurately a "one-party plus" system.

However, it is only most correctly accurate from an objective standpoint to call it a multiparty system. Federal parliament has had representation from *at least* three parties for about a century. The CCF/NDP has maintained an often strong and influential presence in Ottawa since its inception in 1933, and they held the balance of power in a couple of Liberal minority governments. Social Credit had representation in Parliament for over five decades. The Progressive Conservative Party went down to massive defeat in 1993, and their position was usurped by the Reform Party and the Bloc Quebecois. From 1993 until 2005 there were five parties represented in Parliament. Prime Minister Harper's Conservative Party is the result of a merger between the Canadian Alliance (successor to Reform) and the Progressive Conservatives. The PC party did not sit as the Official Opposition at all after their defeat in 1993.

To broaden the argument a bit, I'd like to note that on a provincial level, the CCF/NDP has formed the government in five provinces and one territory (Saskatchewan, Manitoba, British Columbia, Ontario, Nova Scotia and Yukon), Social Credit dominated the governments of British Columbia and Alberta for decades, and the Parti Quebecois and the Union Nationale both formed governments in Quebec.

When you balance it all out, it is difficult to see how Canada can be considered anything but a multi-party system.


This is absolutely correct. Canada is has a multiparty system, not two-party. This should be changed soon. Mike.lifeguard 00:56, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Only two parties have effectively governed Canada over the past 140 years. It is clear then that Canada has a de facto two-party system at the federal level. Even though smaller parties may be also represented in Parliament and may hold the balance of power in a hung legislature, they are not represented in government and do not hold cabinet positions. 161.24.19.82 17:44, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I stand by my original statement above. Since the fall of the Mulroney/Campbell PC government in 1993 we have seen no less than five parties form the Official Opposition. Hipsterlady 05:34, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Portugal is not a two-party system

In the last general elections for parliament these were the results:

[discuss] – [edit]
Summary of the 20 February 2005 Portuguese Assembly of the Republic election results
Party Votes % Change Seats
Socialist Party 2,588,312 45.0% +07.2% 121
Social Democratic Party 1,653,425 28.8% -11.4% 75
Unitarian Democratic Coalition 433,369 07.6% +00.6% 14
People's Party 416,415 07.3% -01.5% 12
Left Bloc 364,971 06.4% +03.7% 8
Communist Party of the Portuguese Workers 48,186 00.8% - 0
New Democracy 40,358 00.7% - 0
Humanist Party 17,056 00.3% - 0
National Renovator Party 9,374 00.2% - 0
Socialist United Workers' Party 5,535 00.1% - 0
Democratic Party of the Atlantic 1,618 00.0% - 0
Blank Ballots 103,537 01.8% - -
Invalid Ballots 65,515 01.1% - -
Total (Turnout 64,26 %) 5,747,834 - - 230


several coalitions have governed the country, this includes AD(Aliança Democrática) between PSD and CDS-PP...

I've removed Portugal from the list

--85.138.18.138 19:25, 1 October 2006 (UTC) PEV - 2

[edit] Australia is not two-party

Australia does not have a two-party system. The Liberals overwhelmingly at a state and federal level will be in coalition with the Nationals, and in the past Labor have sometimes entered into coalitions. The presence of the Greens, Nationals, Family First and the Democrats also seem to refute Australia's classification as two-party.

Whether Labor or the Coalition are in power federally, the reliance on third-party support in the Senate is significant. The Democrats helped pass GST laws, Family First were needed for VSU, the Greens, Democrats and Labor have co-operated to block other legislation.

There is no way that you can call Australia 'two-party'. --MickBarnes 06:41, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Americocentrism?

Are the terms "majority leader", "minority leader", "majority whip", "minority whip" etc used outside the US? The article implies that they're used in a lot of two-party systems. The UK was formerly a two-party system but I've never come across these terms used in reference to British politics, historically or otherwise. The equivalents would be "Leader of the House" (in the Commons - not an exact equivalent), "Leader of the Opposition", "Government Chief Whip", "Opposition Chief Whip". -JdSf 13:10, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I was going to post something almost exactly like this and I strongly agree with JDSF on this. Are the majority/minority leader terms actually used to such an extent that they are necessary, informative, and generally accurate when describing two party systems? I don't think they are and I especially don't think they are relevant or necessary in the introduction. If those titles need to be addressed they should have a section outside the introduction and should involve more than the majority/minority leader terms. - glenstein 76.179.26.12 23:14, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification of concepts?

After a conflict on Single-party system, an informal mediator suggested that part of the problem could be unclear definitions of the concepts we use. I started a discussion about that here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Single-party_state#Clarification_of_concepts.3F Please join in. --Regebro 01:25, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The term "Two Party System" is inherently POV.

I want to remove all labels of countries as Two Party Systems. There is no such thing as "throwing away your vote". The term "Two Party System" and its application to any nation is blatently politically charged. Only a member of one of two big parties would want you to think there is only a choice between two parties, using this false dilemma as proof. The term "System" has two pertinent meanings, one in which the "Two party system" is created as a two party system deliberately, and "Two party system" as an adjective to describe the general configuration of the state of political affairs by neutral observation alone. It is this ambiguity that makes the phrase charged. Defenders of the term "Two Party System" will say that it is self-evidently a two party system by observation, and opponents will say that it implies that the government was "intended" to have only two big parties. Politicians of course, use the term almost exclusively to eliminate the "third party" vote, and for that purpose this phrase has been exceedingly successful. To include a list of "two party system" labeled nations is a true disservice to democracy and anything other than deletion of the list or the addition of a noticable disclaimer is heinously dishonest and a promotion of personal political leanings. Android8 16:58, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


Technically, you're right, but in a practical sense, let's call it what it is. Technically, there's no such thing as "down", only "toward the nearest center of gravity", but that doesn't stop anyone from calling it down. Likewise, while (at least in the U. S.) it may theoretically be open to anyone to run for any office, the parties with all the power have set the system up to keep themselves in power. It would take some major reforms (political and social) to allow a third party or an Independant candidate to achieve a majority or presidency. So, in a practical sense, yes this is a de facto two-party (or one two-sided party) system. And that's not a POV, it's just a fact. Noclevername 05:15, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Garbage article

I was tempted to delete the entire "advantages and disadvantages" portion, and I certainly would have been well within my rights... for one thing there are inherent contradictions in the "criticisms" section such as being conducive to extremist politics yet being a "one party" system. Another thing is that only one of the points is sourced. It's cute to put the US in with Trinidad at the end to give it a black eye. Just another reason why no serious journalist or academic would use Wikipedia as a direct reference.--Rotten 02:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry your great nation's name begins with "U", it must be very traumatic ... Chris cheese whine 07:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
My complaint wasn't about where it stood on the list. Deletion restored.--Rotten 10:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
That's odd, because it looks an awful lot like you weren't happy with that particular placement. I have put the list back on, on the basis that no reason has been put forward for taking it out - its contents are backed up at the relevant articles on those nations. Other than the lack of sources, I don't see a major problem with the article, since it appears to be generally accurate, and doesn't say anything overly controversial in its current state. Chris cheese whine 10:35, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

This article is still junk, is there a single cited statement in the whole article? I may have to put an unsourced tag at the beginning.--Rotten 10:24, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

There is an online Britannica entry for "two-party system" (here). The publicly displayed text is:

political system in which the electorate gives its votes largely to only two major parties and in which one or the other party can win a majority in the legislature. The United States is the classic example of a nation with a two-party system. The contrasts between two-party and multiparty systems are often exaggerated.

Given this, and the number of times the phrase crops up in other contexts, certainly some article at this entry is justified, whatever the quality of the existing text. - David Oberst 10:44, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I perceive what is to me a rather obvious bias (against the two-party system) in the discussion of its advantages.

Also, should we use the word "hypothetical" for median voter, rather than mythical (or re-word the point entirely?).

I dispute the neutrality of this article.

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