Talk:Twelve string guitar
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I just bought a 12-string acoustic guitar today. I've only been playin guitar (6-string) for 9-months, and this is the first time I've ever played a twelve string. Bar chords are harder, but not that much. It just took me a few trys and they sound fine now. Strumming is by far easiest on a 12-string, it's pretty hard to hit both strings when you try to play solos. It definitely wears you out a lot faster than the 6-string, I can only strum like about 5 chord progressions, then my left hand is tired. Nathan, 5-19-05
I don't mean to sound snide, but one can tell that you don't play the 12-string. It doesn't sound, feel or handle anything like a banjo. The problem with it is indeed what Kat calls cacophony, not the fact that strings are hard to fret. There are so many strings that ring that it's very easy to destroy a tune and just sound loud. This is why often a 6-string is preferable. The sound of a 12-string is so brilliant and rich to be hard to handle. Frank, May 1, 2005
Hmm, plucking individual strings. When picking a 12 string, one plucks the strings in pairs (courses) much as one would a lute. It can be done. The problems with plucking pale by comparison to the gymnastics of the left hand, particularly where bar cords are involved. You know you might have been practicing the 12 string if you can pull off a full bar cord and have all 12 notes sound true with no buzzing. Gordon Bok does this effectively on his album, A Rogue's Gallery of Songs for the 12 String. He's an obscure artist, so I wasn't sure that he is worthy of mention here, but then again he's the only one I can think of who has recorded a whole album of solo 12 string.
Last sentence. I really thought cacophony was the operative word. I didn't want to put this in the article, but the real benefit to me of a 12 string is that it allows one person to sound like a whole rhythm section. Almost, anyway; the impression one makes when playing a 12 string well is that of more than one instrument being played. To be sure, there is some greater brightness what with the doubling of the bass, but that doesn't quite capture the essence of the effect.
Tensions and gauges. They aren't standardized entirely, in that there are somewhat softer and harder stringings available in the standard packs. Some guitarists make up their own stringings, picking out one string at a time. I can look up the gauges if you really think it would help. Not sure how to come up with the tensions, as I don't have a handy reference for that.
Kat 03:13, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- Feel free to rephrase :-) I haven't really played 12-string at all, so some of that was guesswork. I'm sure it's possible to play lead parts with 12-strings, and I'm sure many have done it; I was looking for a good explanation why it's not usually the case. As for pulling a bar chord; doesn't that have a lot to do with the string gauges and tension? Thicker gauges on any other guitar are harder to pull than thinner ones (due in part to the extra string tension); I would presume there are thin gauges for 12-string that make barring more feasible. But again, I lack experience here.
- Cacophony seems like a poor word, unless you want to imply that 12-strings sound more jarring and dissonant than 6-strings. Perhaps rich, lush, elaborate, etc. might be better. Of course, talented guitarists can make even a 6-string (or 4-string bass, for that matter) sound like more than one instrument is being played. -- Wapcaplet 03:53, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)
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- I'll have to do some checking on the wiki-thesaurus ;-) to see if that perfect turn of phrase can't be found.
Should there be a mention of Nashville Tuning? If I'm not mistaken, isn't that basically a twelve string guitar with only the second set of strings? Adam Bishop 03:38, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- I've never heard of this. Kat
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- Hmm...well, basically the B and high E strings are the same but the other strings are an octave higher. I just assumed someone once had a 12-string guitar and decided to use only the second set of strings. Some Pink Floyd songs use that tuning, and presumably some country songs (hence Nashville, I guess :)) Adam Bishop 17:15, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)
It's not difficult to play bar chords on a twelve-string. It is difficult to pluck out individual strings, and rather less difficult to pick a single course (the gap between courses is less than it is on an equivalent 6-string, and plucking the twin notes cleanly requires a nice soft right hand). In summary, the problems presented by the 12-string to the left hand are small and easily overcome, the problems presented to the right hand are significant. (And yes, I have owned three or four 12-string guitars and played them for over 20 years. Six strings also, and bass, but I was always very fond of my 12-strings.) Tannin
- I suppose it depends on the person. When I was playing a lot, I could play bar chords. I've never heard of trying to play a single string except when tuning up. I never found the right hand especially difficult, though I would burn up fingernails pretty quickly if I didn't use those metal finger picks. Kat
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[edit] List of significant 12-string players
Why would Slash be on there? Every hair metal axeman would occasionally bust out the twelver for power ballads and such--e.g., "Dead or Alive" by Bon Jovi--but none of these represent especially notable contributions when compared to McGuinn, Page, or Marr. --Slightlyslack 02:40, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
-- Slash played a Gibson SG-1275 for almost all of the shows on the Use Your Illusion World Tour, especially for the Wild Horses & Knockin' On Heaven's Door medley and, occasionally, the Mother & Paradise City medley. With Velvet Revolver, on the Contraband tour, he played an Acoustic/Electric double-neck 12/6 (I've forgotten what model) for You Got No Right. --Solidius 05:14, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
Twelve strings vary at least as much as six string instruments. Some are almost impossible to do clear barre chords on (an old line mentions the need for Popeye's forearms, and indeed I can show you the muscle I developed over time...) while others are really quite easy to barre. The action of the instrument is everything.
I have a J-200-12 now (really) and it is a *very* easy instrument to play!
The neck is straight and the action low. Now that said, it is NOT a big old warhorse like an old Guild. You can "overplay" it--think harpsicord rather than pipe organ. But what tone!
The trickier thing is to play a 12 str *clearly*. If you want excellent 'definition' of the notes, get a nice smaller body six. But if you want to try something that rewards fewer notes with importance and grandeur, well there is a 'best bet' for you! Get a 12. I promise you, they can be great fun and a wonderful inspiration.
Players of acoustic twelves fall into two main catagories. The premier example of each would be 1.(of course) Leadbelly ("The King of the Twelve String" and according to George Gruhn, probably THE reason they still exist!)and conversely someone like Mark Spoelstra, who plays a twelve with the clarity most of us would be happy with on a six. Get his first Folkways album and listen to "Buckdancer's Choice #2". It is amazing!
Leadbelly type players include Fred Gerlach, who has wonderful drama in his arrangements, Eric Darling (the few pieces he has on his solo LPs can be played with a heavy right thumb; he also was a founder of the Rooftop Singers, famous for the two 12s in the trio and "Walk Right In".), and of course Pete Seeger, although he also branched out some. Dave "Snaker" Ray (of Koerner, Ray & Glover fame) was a magnificent player and singer, and Paul Geremia also fits in here, too. And I must mention a contemporary of Leadbelly's, "The Lone Cat', Jesse Fuller, who wrote "San Francisco Bay Blues". Leadbelly thought he was the only 12 player, not so. And I wish I could have heard the music when those two finally sat down together!
The best finger pickers to my ear are Mark Spoelstra (who is why my first guitar was a 12), and certainly Leo Kotke.
Everyone else just uses 12s as another color on their palette. Even if some of them, like Glen Cambell, could really play! Even the Beatles had a go at it. Listen to "Hide Your Love Away", a very spare arrangement for them.
Also, the Leadbelly types string the instrument differently than most more modern players. On their boxes the first three (high pitch) pairs are unisons, then the next two pairs (#4 & 5) are ONE octave apart, and the bass, 6th pair is TWO octaves apart (So a regular sixth string and a regular first string!). Leadbelly also used heavy gauge strings and tuned about four frets, or semitones, low!
The "modern" setup is first two pairs in unison, and the lower four pairs all ONE octave apart. That is the way I have always played, but I would love to try a big, old box strung up the old way! And even though I string in the modern mode, I have always tuned two or three frets low.
Nashville tuning is indeed just the "thin strings" of the pairs put on a six. Nashvile studio types love to add that sound to a group session (indeed, how many guitars can you have going before it all goes mushy? This tactic gives another flavor to the stew...). But I have never heard it used very much by a solo player. Try it on a spare guitar sometime, kinda fun. But it's much better in a group.
They are wonderful, and I have never been without at least one in the bunch!
--- Alan Sparhawk plays a Danelectro 12-string.
Chris de Burgh during The Road to Freedom performances was using electric 12 string guitars exclusively as far as I'm aware (in terms of guitars, he did play a piano as well). Matheau 15:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC) Matthew 04 September 2006
[edit] Title problem.
I believe the title should be Twelve-string guitar. Can someone move it to a new title? Mengsk 21:01, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Removed some incorrect information
Traditional Brazilian music does not use a 12-string. It uses a 10-string guitar ("viola" is the name of the 10-string, not the style), typically with different tunings from the 12-string. A link on the 10-string: [1] --LodeRunner 22:01, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] stringing a twelve string
i recently saw a twelve string strung with the light string before rather than after the heavy string on a downward strum is this correct or is it just personal choice
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 222.152.80.13 (talk) 18:18, 31 January 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Tony Banks
Since Hackett, Rutherford and Phillips are mentioned, maybe Tony Banks should be too? He frequently played 12-string on Genesis studio albums and stage performances. Whitespacebug 16:56, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
