Talk:TV-FM DX

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Contents 1 Bivariate-correlator 2 Pirate Radio 3 Planned to do list 4 Further Suggestions 5 Web References and Publication References in one Single Reference Section 6 DX cluster

[edit] Bivariate-correlator

Why do you keep unwikifying, deleting blocks of text, and similar behavior? I have asked you on your talk page and you don't respond! Andre (talk) 04:10, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

If I deleted any blocks of text, it was because the information was either out of context or needed to be included in a separate paragraph.

Andrevan, just out of curiosity, what experience do you have regarding TV or FM DX? If you are recognised in the TV FM DX community, I would likely be familiar with your real name. Are you really qualified to edit this article? Bivariate-correlator May 3, 2005

First of all, you don't need to be "qualified" to edit an article on Wikipedia. This is an egalitarian project where experts have no status over non-experts. To find the information I did to originate and contribute to this article, I consulted knowledgeable DXers whose names you may know but I will not list here in case they would like to remain anonymous. Any errors regarding DX are my own misinterpretations of information given me by these people. Every time I make an edit that isn't correct, an expert can fix it. However, you must explain why what you are saying is true, or cite sources for your point of view, which you haven't been doing. Your name itself isn't enough. For what it's worth, I'm going to ask one of my sources about the link betweeen DX and pirate radio, which I feel exists. I'm not going to give you a hard time about your earlier removals and unwikifications, but please use edit summaries from now on. Andre (talk) 20:50, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

If you are prepared to provide specific examples, I will explain my point of view. Everything in the article can be backed up by either online or publication reference sources. Bivariate-correlator May 4, 2005

[edit] Pirate Radio

• Pirate radio has no connection with TV and FM DX. Any reference to pirate radio has no place in the article. As a DXer with some 30 years experience, I have never heard a pirate transmitter via long-range signal propagation. Moreover, pirate radio or television transmissions are illegal, hence TV and FM DX clubs do not encourage any association with this type of broadcasting. If anything, TV FM DX and shortwave radio DX have a lot more in common.

First off, this is already an excellent article. A comment: It may be that you have never heard a pirate station in 30 years (I have ... licensed ham since 1961). But pirate DXing, illegal or not, may be of interest to readers of the article as well as other editors. Wikipedia is a community project, not a solitary one. Your claim below that low-power signals don't propagate over long distances is completely spurious; ever heard a watt (or less) beacon? To *discuss* pirate xmits is not to *condone* them. I'd encourage you to lighten up. Twang 19:33, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

• Pirate radio DX is mostly confined to the 3-30 MHz shortwave radio HF bands. Even with low transmitter power, HF pirate transmissions are well propagated. In contrast, although pirate FM stations also infrequently operate in the 88-108 MHz FM band, their low transmitter power (ERP) precludes signal propagation over long distances. Moreover, government regulatory bodies such as the FCC, ensure that most pirate transmissions are shut down. Bivariate-correlator 13:36, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

This article is obviously not yet ready for submission as a Wikipedia featured article candidate. I intend to contact other DXers regarding possible photos, i.e., off-screen TV pictures via tropospheric and F2 propagation, for inclusion in the article. Also, I intend to submit further technical information.

Bivariate-correlator

I have discovered that DXers such as M. Bugaj and E. Fader in the New York/New Jersey/Connecticut area have heard pirates from as far as Florida using FM DX. Despite the fact that pirate transmitters are illegal, I believe that the interest in setting up a pirate station is related to DXing. Andre (talk) 19:53, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

I agree that if a pirate FM station can somehow arrange to generate at least 50-500 watts transmitter power, there is a small chance they can be received via E-skip during the summer months. However, having said that, this type of Es reception is still rare compared to the normal legal commercial and non-commercial FM stations received. Moreover, pirate TV DX is extremely rare.

As a compromise, it may be possible briefly comment on the fact that 88-108 MHz pirate FM stations are very occasionally received via E-skip. However, I definitely would not approve any mention of pirate broadcasting in the introduction paragraphs. A separate paragraph could be created listing the types of FM stations (including pirates) that are received by DXers. Bivariate-correlator 08:11, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Alright, that's a reasonable compromise. Andre (talk) 17:33, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very much for finally responding. Your contributions to this article are useful and helpful, but you seem to be missing some important parts of Wikipedia etiquette and procedure. It is customary to discuss edits and use edit summaries to explain why your edits are worthwhile. Also, I have a few questions. Firstly, why is the form "TV FM DX" better than "TV/FM DX" or "TV-FM DX", as changed in your latest edit? Secondly, what is the copyright information on the images you have uploaded to Wikipedia? If they are your own, do you release them under a free license? Andre (talk) 20:23, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

• A Google search reveals that "TV-FM DX" and TV FM DX" are the most popular forms. Since "TV-FM DX" provided the most search results, I submit that the article should be re-named to "TV-FM DX". Another alternative is to have a separate article for both TV DX, and FM DX.

• Alright, I've moved the article to TV-FM DX.

• If that photo is one of your personal photos, please state this on the image information page and add a copyright tag as soon as possible.

• From now on, please get permission/confirmation from copyright owners before uploading your photos. Andre (talk) 20:53, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

• Copyright status, including written permission from the original owners, Kelly Lindman - DXtuners.com, and Tony Mann, has been obtained for both photos. Bivariate-correlator 13:36, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Planned to do list

• The introduction section is quite good. Given the space restrictions of Wikipedia articles, additional information to the introduction section is likely not needed.

• History section needs to supplemented by other DXer's information. I have already asked one well-known U.S. TV DXer for advice.

• Various TV and FM DX distance records, as detailed in the history section, could be moved to a notable DX reception section.

• The signal propagation sections are quite detailed. Apart from a small additional section covering aircraft scatter; most of the information is now adequate.

• As a general rule, it seems that many featured Wikipedia articles include a maximum seven to ten photos. The Wikipedia Spring Heeled Jack article includes ten photos. The TV-FM DX article currently includes five photos. If possible, I would like to include three more photos:

Typical TV FM DX antenna installation.

High quality FM DX tuner.

Off-screen tropospheric TV DX photo.

• Ensure that there are minimal (red) internal wikilinks.

• Before the TV-FM DX article is again re-submitted as a featured article candidate, I submit that the following articles could be used as a benchmark: Spring Heeled Jack, Beatles.

Bivariate-correlator 06:30, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

It isn't important to not have red wikilinks. Red wikilinks are important, they are what create new articles. Otherwise, I agree with your ideas. Andre (talk) 18:08, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Further Suggestions

• Move Roger Bunney DX TV book details from the History section to the Reference section.
• Create two separate reference sections: one for internet articles, and one for printed publications.
  • No - this would be non-standard for Wikipedia articles.
• History section still needs further input from other contributers.
• Add new section with brief summary of antenna and receiver requirements.
• Add typical TV FM DX antenna and receiver installation photos.
• Add high quality FM DX tuner photo.
• Experienced Wikipedia contributer could examine article for any needed punctuation changes.
  • I'm an admin and an experienced contributor - why do we need another one?

Bivariate-correlator 09:57, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Andre (talk) 23:19, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Web References and Publication References in one Single Reference Section

• The Carl Sagan (featured) Wikipedia article includes both internet and publication references in a single reference section.

Bivariate-correlator 11:58, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Er, yes. That's the standard style. Andre (talk) 15:56, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] DX cluster

The article DX cluster is currently up for deletion, mainly due to the poor quality of the writing but also because it does not provide any context. Perhaps somebody with some knowledge of the subject could have a look to see if anything can be salvaged. Cheers TigerShark 22:23, 15 January 2006 (UTC)