Talk:Turks (Final Fantasy VII)

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Contents 1 Name origin? 2 The Turks - proper name "Peace Preservation: Special Division"? 3 "Who the bleep is 'Shion'? 4 Tseng/Zeng didn't die in FF7 5 Before Crisis Turks 6 Weird Changes I've Seen to the Article 7 Baldness of Rude 8 Tseng's Death 9 Searching for Reno 10 Rude's Ethnicity

[edit] Name origin?

Does anyone know the origin of the (possibly politically incorrect) name "Turks"? ~GMH 06:19, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

I really doubt that anyone will know the true origin of the Turks, but the best thing to come close to it is the Turks as we know them may be copied from the New York vice crime group known as the Turks. Hrm. Maybe the Japanese translation could shed some light, if anyone knows what it is? — CuaHL 09:56, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

That might be helpful, but from what I know, the English name might have been a newly derived name, and nothing like the Japanese name (Terrato/Midgar Zolom from Final Fantasy VI is an example). Although, I haven't heard of that crime group before...assuming it's true, that sounds pretty likely. *looks on Wikipedia for just that* ~GMH 02:50, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

"Turks" is actually the original Japanese name (rendered as "TĀKUSU" タークス). Although Sony did botch some of the names when they translated FF7, this isn't one of them. Reichu 04:26, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

What if 'Turks' have no special origin? The Turks as a nation were famous by their cruel ways of doing things. Maybe that suits the characteristics of our CIA/mobsters as well. You know, like : ruthless as a Turk. Remember this guy from the Godfather part 1? He is called The Turk because he is good with knives.

"The Turks as a nation were famous by their cruel ways of doing things" this is a very disrespectful and biassed comment. I am sure japanese gamemakers are not as bigot as you are. Isatay 10:24, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Turks - proper name "Peace Preservation: Special Division"?

In FFVII, Shinra's military force is referred to as the Peace Preservation force by Scarlet and Heideggar, and when the Turks are introduced I think one of them says that they are "Peace Preservation: Special Division". That's their official company name. Though everyone knows them as the Turks, in Shinra's official documents they would be referred to as the Special Division of the Peace Preservation Force.

In the game, Cloud refers to the Turks as being the Shinra Manufacturing Department into Administration Research, which doesn't make a lot sense and is probably a dodgy English translation. --Ludi 11:12, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

I think "Peace Preservation: Special Division" sounds more "believable" from a fiction-writing perspective. ~GMH talk to me 00:22, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Shinra Manufacturing Department into Administration Research is indeed a mistranslation. The Japanese title of their Department has absolutely no words in it that can be translated as "manufacturing". A far more accurate (and very literal) translation of the department would be, "General Affairs Department, Investigation Section". This is what they are called in Before Crisis, and also in Last Order.

My guess is that the translation flub stems from two facts. First is that "General Affairs Department" could also be translated as "Executive Department" or "Administrative Department", and "Section" is almost interchangeable "Department". Second is that the Turks existance dates back to before the discovery of mako, when the company was still known as "Shin-Ra Manufacturing Works".

As such, the line was probably something like, "They were the Investigation Section of Shin-Ra Manufacturing Works' General Affairs Department". Translators dropped some stuff here, changed and combined a few words, and tried to make it sound good, resulting in a flawed translation.

As for "Peace Preservation: Special Division", since in FFVII, they are technically part of Heidegger's "Public Maintenance and Order" Department... I can easily see how "Public Order" could be mistranslated as "Peace Preservation". These translators are the guys who misromanized "North Pole" as "Knowell's Pole", after all, so I wouldn't put it past them. WtW-Suzaku 08:07, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

As a point of interest, the original Playstation translation called Heidegger's department 'Public Safety Maintenance'. --81.153.213.85 21:04, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Who the bleep is 'Shion'?

The Turks page was advocating a somewhat incorrect idea about Tseng's name, so I took the liberty of making some much-needed corrections. Hopefully this will resolve the matter permanently. Reichu 04:30, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Actually if anyone watched Last Order, in the background when Tseng signs the a piece of paper during the start of the show, he signs his name Zeng. But then again, Last Order spells Zack's name as both Zack and Zax. in Japanese Zack is called ZA-KU-SU(can't be bothered to type katakana, btw the U vowel is elided). Zeng and Tseng, in chinese are the same character, Zeng is just the hanyu pinyin romanization, Tseng is an older romanisation. --Darthanakin 05:45, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Ok second opinion (im responding to the writing above) :

We got 4 names here : Tseng (in game FF7), Zeng (In FF7:Last Order), Shion from God knows where (i read it once in subtitles for FF7: Advent children) and finally- Tsuon/Tson. I personaly think that his name is definately NOT Shion and I believe that it came out of bad katakana reading because the letters TSU and SHI are very easy to confuse by nooblets (the sign has a diagonal stick, the reading is marked by 2 dots, if the dots are placed on the upper part of the stick, its tsu, if the dots are at the bottom, its shi.) ツォン. If he'd be shuon, then the americans would probably translate it as Shean! Like Shean Connery!

The most often used name i've read is Tsuon. I've read many fanfictions in japanese, i've looked at the original ff7 game pictures and it always says Tsuon. So if the japanese say its Tsuon, i go with the tsuon version. I'm guessing that the americans didnt like the sound of it so they just said oh whattahell Tseng/Zeng is so much classier? :P

...it may be late to add a comment, but...wow. That katakana are pronounced "tson", just so you know. And using "Tseng" is called a Romanization. The common thing is if it's derived from Chinese, normal Chinese Romanizations are used... And "Tseng" is pronounced "Tsong". The Chinese ending "g" sound is omitted in transliterations. And it's SEAN Connery.urutapu 15:48, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tseng/Zeng didn't die in FF7

I fixed the article. The proof can be found in the original japanese script for FF7, and also in the PC version which I believe was corrected to reflect that he did not die (namely in the form of Elena talking to Cloud early on in disc 2).

-Corey

If you talked to Tseng in the Temple of the Ancients when he's just sitting there, he'll tell you himself that he isn't dead.

-Marc

[edit] Before Crisis Turks

I've made a few minor changes to the Before Crisis Turks section, renaming them using a combination of their "names" in Last Order, and Before Crisis. In Last Order's credits, they're called "Turk (Gun)", for example, while in Before Crisis, that would be "Gun (Female)". So, I opted for "Female Turk (Gun)". The gender specifiers are a bit neccesary, since two of them are both "Martial Arts".

Removed the referance to Rod's weapon being an "Electro-Mag Rod", because it just isn't. It's simply a "Rod", which can later be replaced by the stronger "Pierce Rod" and "Light Rod". Any elemental properties that are attatched to it are defined by the materia equipped to it, just like with any of the weapons in Before Crisis. In fact, it's entirely questionable that Reno's weapon is even an "Electro-Mag Rod", as that's simply the name of an attack he uses.

Re-ordered them, to fall in line with the official "ordering", in which they are always listed male, female, male, female. This is the order that they are listed in the games, on the official website, and in just about every other Japanese website I've seen them in. I also removed further references to "Female A", or "Character B", etc., as those are not official, and are just a way that some fans choose to keep track of them.

Lastly, I renamed "Turk (Fencing)" to the far more accurate "Katana", as he's LITERALLY called 刀(男), or "Katana (Male)". I also changed "fencer" to the more accurate "swordsman", as he practices neither kendo or fencing. It's important to note the that he uses a Japanese katana, as opposed to a European type of sword.

WtW-Suzaku 08:35, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, that's nice. Someone just reverted all of the more accurate information and linked it to the Before Crisis section. There goes that work. WtW-Suzaku 05:29, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Weird Changes I've Seen to the Article

I've noticed some odd changes and things removed, usually by Fractyl, including some facts that I've added. For example, the Turks' official primary job being scouts for new recruits for SOLDIER, something that is mentioned several times in Before Crisis, FFVII, and even briefly in Dirge of Cerberus' character profile for Azul.

If you look at some of the older versions of the article, you'll see that a lot of good information was removed. :/

[edit] Baldness of Rude

The article states rude as naturally bald but in advent children his hair is clearly shaven.

[edit] Tseng's Death

Can somebody show me a source to this so called "translation error" of Tseng's death someone keeps talking about?

From what I hear the Final Fantasy Ultimania Omega guide would have it, but I don't own a copy. I believe someone mentions it on either this page or on Talk:List of Final Fantasy VII characters. Essentially, the PS1 English translation is Elena saying AVALANCHE "did in" her boss, which can mean either to do something bad to or, more commonly, to kill. In the PC English translation, it's changed to something like "hurt". I own both the PS1 and PC versions, but I don't have any save files on disc 2, so it would take me a while to get to it and check the dialogue. Kasreyn 07:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Searching for Reno

I'm searching for Reno's last name.. I know he has one and it should be listed here if anyone knows it.

Uhm. None of the other Turks do and I've never heard such a thing.—ウルタプ 04:57, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I've seen the last name Sinclair used multiple times in various fanfiction/fanart and the like. I know this stuff is made up by the fans, and therefore could very well be purely Fandom, but since that surname seems to pop up so often there's a possibility it's been mentioned in the canon somewhere. Anyone else heard of this?

As for the other Turks, I haven't seen any similar correlations. Slye28 01:03, 29 November 2006 (UTC)Elle

Please, don't work yourself so hard on it, for I know the whole story. None of the Turks have canon real last names. It is quite amusing that out of all the fanfiction and fanart you found the constant name Sinclair. I know who used it first, and then I know who used it second. Then, I know that all the Reno fans out there have seen that name and used it; however, that's not what I want to call out. All I have to say is that it originated from two stories: the first was Cherry Soda boy, and then there was Stake Out. Look it up.

[edit] Rude's Ethnicity

After a heated debate with friends, is Rude black or heavily tanned?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Isatay (talk • contribs).

According to the new book out, he was imagined as "Of South American descent"71.212.245.60 04:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC)Terra