Talk:Tulsa Race Riot

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[edit] Please read this statement

This article has a checkered past when it comes to Neutral point of view issues and Edit wars. The result of this activity was an irretrievably damaged article that needed to be nearly completely replaced.

The result of this overhaul left the article as it reads now, minus a handful of typographic corrections. The entire current article is based on a single piece of source material: Final Report of the Oklahoma Commission to Study the Tulsa Race Riot of 1921. This article is therefore accurate based on the source cited, but needs additional material with verifiable sources to fill in the gaps and to assure neutrality.

Because this article has proven to have subject matter that is very sensitive to some contributors (and rightfully so), and because of the contentious history of the article itself, virtually all new material added will need verifiable sources cited. For details on cited sources, please review Citing sources. Please review No original research. Also, please reframe from deleting or overwriting existing material without first posting your intentions on this discussion page. Any deletion without discussion and consensus to delete will result in an immediate reversion. Thank you for being curtious, and happy editing. Thanks, Master Scott Hall 05:06, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

You have no authority to make this declaration, Scott. Tulsino 02:58, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Why is EVERY massacre in the US against Black people called a Riot? This is a massacre, plain and simple. Mass Graves, Government coverups, and rounding up people to be shot. MASSACRE. -Unsigned

The mass graves are a pure urban legend. In fact, this whole article is pretty biased towards the more sensational and rumor-laden aspects of the riot. Government coverups, psh. Next you're going to spout that idiotic old wives' tale that there were bombers flying over the city. -RannXXV 04:54, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I am framilar with the subject and I assure you that there are no mass graves and there is a consensus among black and white survivors of the riot that the "aerial bombers" legend is a hoax. MafiaCapo 21:49, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] So-Called Vandalism

So. I see User:Dtasripin has brought his POV-based edit war over here, along with accusations of vandalism. Very well, I will not touch the article further, save to add the markers that it is not of proper quality and is not NPOV. -RannXXV 21:07, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

And there we go. Now, if someone cares to start sourcing the claims of mass graves to any sort of evidence, hopefully credible evidence, and clean it up to use less sensationalist language, maybe it will become a Wikipedia-quality article. -RannXXV 21:14, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tulsa Race Riot overhaul

I have made a very honest attempt to turn this article into a solid and hopefully neutral encyclopedic piece. In the process, I am certain that many facts and figures have been missed. I hope that other contributors will continued to add, in good faith, additional factual, NPOV information to this important article. I have added a 'Controversy' section to facilitate other points of view, and encourage contributors to use the Talk/Discussion page to work out differences and conflicts of opinion. This article has the potential to become a significantly educational article and a great asset to the worldwide readers and users of Wikipedia.

I pulled most of the facts and figures directly from the Race Riot Commission Report. I realize that there are many differing points of view on this subject, but I used what appeared to be the most neutral source available to build a basic structure for this article - to provide a framework for future changes and additions. I am not attempting to establish this source as the only source for credible facts on this sensitive subject.

I also invite those who excel at writing scripts and templates to add the appropriate citations to this article. This is another reason I tried to stick with a single source this early on - to make it easier to cite sources.

Thanks --Master Scott Hall 22:37, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Unknown user: 68.0.119.82

Thank you for your contribution to this article. Based on the points made in the statement at the top of this discussion page, your contributions can not stand as is. The edit concerning Dick Rowland after the riot will be reverted. You may replace this material without overwriting existing material if you are able to provide a cited source. The edit concerning the dumping of bodies will stand pending citaion of Reliable sources. If no sources are provided within a reasonable amount of time, this edit will be reverted as well.

Note: I have heard these details mentioned, and don't doubt their validity. But in order to develop and maintain the credibility of this article and Wikipedia in general, all material must come from reliable sources and be verifiable. Thank you, Master Scott Hall 05:13, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Follow-up: The edits made by User:68.0.119.82 have been reverted based on reasons discussed above. Thanks, Master Scott Hall | Talk 04:23, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unknown User:128.32.14.36

User:128.32.14.36: Thank you for your interest in contributing to this article. As has been stated above, due to the sensitive nature of the subject matter in this article, and its long history of edit-warring and POV complications, any deletions or otherwise altering of existing content will be reverted unless first discussed on this talk page and a consensus reached with fellow contributing editors. This, coupled with your history of questionable edits, makes the motivations behind your most recent edits highly suspicious. Based on these points, your recent edits will be reverted. If you do not agree with this action, please discuss it here.

Perhaps, if you wish to change this editor's suspicion about the motivations behind your editing habits, you could consider contributing quality content (in other words, adding new, neutral, verifiable information) to this and other articles instead of strategically deleting/modifying/quasi-vandalizing content in an apparent effort distort its intended purpose. Another step toward gaining general acceptance and credibility would be to identify yourself and sign your work. Thanks, Master Scott | Talk 15:53, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] poorly cited

one citation at the end of this article is not sufficient. citations are needed throughout the article.

Tulsino 02:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

  • What purpose would it serve to have [1][2][3][4][5]...[999][1000] peppered all through the article, when they all point to the same source? I think Mr. Hall's explanation at the top of the talk page -- the one you struck-thru -- is valid and appropriate. On the other hand, it probably *is* appropriate to add the "cite sources" template to the top of the article. --Robertb-dc 17:10, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
The [1][2] etc would show what really appears in the sources and what doesn't. I am new to this article and when I see questionable statements have no option but to read the whole cited report. Tulsino 05:23, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV claim

An anonymous IP address added a NPOV tag to the "Looting and burning" section. I don't see why, and they didn't bother to tell us here. Does describing a defense as "valiant" constitute a pro-defender POV? Are "countless" and "many" too unclear? Maybe so, but if there are no concrete suggestions on how to make it more NPOV, then I think it would be appropriate to remove the tag. --Robertb-dc 16:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subtle POV shift?

The tone of the article was changed, in a rather subtle way, by an anonymous user's recent edits. The descriptions of the whites seemed to change from "mob" to "community" -- and the blacks changed from a "community" to a "mob". I would be tempted to chalk it up to a difference in wording, except for this change:

Before:

In the most generally accepted account, Rowland tripped upon entering the elevator and, in an effort to prevent himself from falling, grabbed the arm of Page, who subsequently let out a startled gasp or scream. In a less-accepted account, among others, it has been suggested that the two had had a lover's quarrel, but very few, on either side of the debate believe that any kind of actual assault occurred.

After:

It has been suggested that the two had a quarrel, and it is believed that the young lady was assaulted.

This incident, the spark that ignited the entire event, has been changed from saying that "few believe there was an assault" to "she was assaulted". To me, this shows the other edits in a different light altogether. With that in mind, I am reverting all the changes by 72.185.200.99 (whose only recent edits are to this article). Please note any objections here, as I am only trying to revert possible vandalism, not inject my own POV. --Robertb-dc 18:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

  • What's the deal? There are at least two recent reverts where the paragraph above has been changed to:

It has been suggested that the two had had a lover's quarrel, and few believe that any kind of actual assault occurred.

As before, the change is accompanied by several other, more subtle POV shifts. Why the need to move blame to the victims? It's been almost a century, folks. I think we white folks should be able to accept by now that people the same color as us did some awful things back then. On the other hand, I guess it could be worse. --Robertb-dc 15:15, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Upmost Importance

This article is listed under Oklahoma pages of "unknown importance". This is a critical turning point in race relations in this state. It is of highest importance, IMO. Hopquick 03:17, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

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