Talk:Tulsa, Oklahoma

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Suggestions to get this article to feature article status.

  • Add pictures of Tulsa skyline and natural park areas (i.e. Woodward Park and Arkansas River).
  • Rewrite "Transportation" section in paragraph form with no lists.
  • Briefly expand (in paragraph form) on "Healthcare" section; note important facts about the mentioned hospitals, and try to include general status of Tulsa healthcare in general.
  • Expand "Business and Economy" section; include more details, rather than generalizations.
  • Write (in paragraph form), descriptions of each college mentioned under "Education" section (i.e. Oral Roberts University offers 16 accredited programs and is known for...etc). Maybe include national rankings, sports programs, and campus grounds descriptions.
  • Write short paragraph for each (or most) of the mentioned and listed attractions under "Entertainment and Attractions" section, using specific details. Use references when needed.
  • Expand under "Geography" section regarding regional location of Tulsa (i.e. nearby mountains, lakes, important state parks, and details about Green Country)
  • Do Not add any lists!
Troll warning This discussion page may contain trolling. Before you post any reply, consider how you might minimize the effects of trollish comments. Simply ignoring certain comments may be the best option. If you must respond, a temperate response is always best, whether trolling is suspected or not.
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[edit] Tulsa article too long?

I've personally visited Tulsa twice to visit my maternal family side and how Tulsans boost a strong sense of civic pride. For one thing, I don't feel the Wikipedia article is horribly long, it's been frequently added to a point some people can't stand reading it. I appreciate changes in the article like the link to Tulsa's churches, about 220 of them, as the city has a cultural characteristic of the bible belt. 55 are "mega-churches" with over 1,000 members, and they span many acres with recreational amentities and private schools for members' children. I'm from Southern Cal. and noticed there's a deep sense of religious feeling, esp. the Protestant Christian (evangelical) kind in the community. Tulsa ranks one of the most Republican counties in the state, if not the country, despite the number of Democrats in Tulsa is above the state average. There is a strong patriotic flavor in Tulsans of all races, faithes and backgrounds, including the local American Indians in the area's 6 recognized tribes. Keep on the additions and careful edits on Tulsa until it's an explanatory and informative article. --Mike D 26 08:03, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tulsas Roads

With more toll roads than any other state in the union, It is hard to believe that even with the revenue from toll roads, Tulsa and the State of Oklahoma have the worst roads in the nation.

  • As a lifelong Tulsa resident, this is a constant source of bewilderment to me as well.--Nmajdan 19:45, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

It may have something to do with not complying with Federal transportation mandates. See categorical grant --68.97.2.180 00:48, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Major league soccer

Somebody added to the article that a major league soccer team is coming to Tulsa. Is there a source for this?--Nmajdan 17:51, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

News to me. I can find no cite for this on Google News or on the MLS website. Last I heard they were adding teams in Toronto and the Philadelphia area but weren't considering Tulsa or OKC at this time. --D Wilbanks 22:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Ok, then I'm going to remove it. If somebody has a source, they can readd it.--Nmajdan 23:23, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of churches, libraries is gone

I'm taking the advice that is so often given. I'm being bold. List of churches- gone. List of libraries-gone. I've never seen anything like either of those in an encyclopedia, and they're unnecessary, so I took them out. Jedck 03:50, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

WHAT??? What have you done??? Seriously though, if somebody really wants that list, it needs to be on its own page. Like List of churches in Tulsa, Oklahoma or something.--Nmajdan 14:34, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Yah this list isn't really bad (seriously, I've needed a list of churches before). List of churches in Tulsa should be a good place for them. Other similar lists: List of churches in the United Church of Canada, List of churches in London, and List of churches in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Clearly most aren't going to be notable enough for their own articles, but some are (like Holy Family Cathedral, etc.). -- Ash Lux (talk | contribs) 03:39, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Look at http://www.churchangel.com/WEBOK/tulsa.htm for a starter list of Churches in Tulsa. And here's a list for Broken Arrow http://www.churchangel.com/WEBOK/brokenarrow.htm. If we do a list of churches, we might want to go ahead and have a seperate list for each city. -- Ash Lux (talk | contribs) 03:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I've started a list of churches on my page and am working to expand it using the list Ash Lux provided. I will start the article when I get a little further along. Here's the link: User:Nmajdan/List of Churches in Tulsa, Oklahoma.--Nmajdan 13:36, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Man, there are a lot of Baptist churches. I've gone about halfway through the website so I'm going to go ahead and create the article and I'll continue to expand it over time. I will be placing it here: List of churches in Tulsa, Oklahoma.--Nmajdan 14:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I would recommend that your well formatted "List of churches in Tulsa" be Moved to a "List of places of worship in tulsa" or something like that. That way you could include synagogues and mosques.--Paul E. Ester 02:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Please remember that Wikipedia is not a directory or repository of links. Having said that, inclusion of Tam Bao Buddhist Temple and the Hindu Temple of Tulsa would seem to be appropriate.--LeflymanTalk 01:23, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
I read your post as saying we should not have this list at all. So should it be deleted or not?--Nmajdan 03:48, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Opinions about tulsa

http://www.utulsa.edu/collegian/article.asp?article=1832 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

Can we start the RFC process on this user? I'm really tired of this endless stream of "Tulsa sucks" material. Tulsa may well suck, but it's not NPOV, and this user has not contributed to this article in any substantive way. I think it's bordering on trolling. --D Wilbanks 02:26, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Ha. Sure, I'll support.--NMajdan•talk 18:18, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I didnt say Tulsa sucks, I said this is what people think about Tulsa! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

Tulsa is what's typical of Middle American communities, but it's a major city and has most of the same amentities like New York, Chicago or Los Angeles. Tulsa isn't terribly boring at all, but some things to make a major city are missing. I don't know this need for haute culture, but Tulsa has ballets and symphonies, elegant shopping in Downtown, and college education in OSU and Univ. of OK. right in Tulsa. Frank Gilcrease Museum is a special arts and cultural museum devoted to the American West, but includes rare and highly-acclaimed paintings one may see in Paris, Manhattan, L.A. or London. Sherwin Miller Museum of Jewish Art is one of its' kind to exhibit artistry of the Jewish people, some of them live in Tulsa. Is there a snobbery exposed by recent edits in the Tulsa Wikipedia article? Anyways, North Tulsa has enjoyed a relative real estate boom, despite the locals consider it a mostly low-income Black area and the presence of Indian reservations (the Osage) is actually an affluent residential section. Tulsa has been in negative publicity for many years as a hub of racist, ultra-conservative and fundamentalist activity. But not every resident is like that, not to mention there has been immigration of Asians, Latinos and Middle East nationalities into Tulsa in recent years. I guess for a mainly conservative city, Tulsa isn't "closed off" to various ethnic, racial and social groups like perceived in the media. The Greenwood race riot of 1921 is in the past, but Tulsans learned their lesson and moved on to where the city stands on race relations today. The city's historic Black community once was the most well-off in the early 1900's or you won't find the nickname "Black Wall Street" to indicate a fiscal boom had took place in Tulsa. Another thing to add is in 1926, a professional football team the Hominy Indians of Tulsa was made up entirely of American Indians and played in the predecessor of the NFL...but the Indians lost to the New York Giants in a championship match. --Mike D 26 08:13, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Religion Section

I think there should be a section on Religion in Tulsa. Something covering the highlights like ORU/REMA etc. I don't have enough of the background but it seems to me there could be a NPOV narrative mentioning the highlights. Just looking at it as a economic perspective there is a lot to cover.--Paul E. Ester 02:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Street Networks

Needs to be removed, who needs a whole section on how the streets are situatated, —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

I think this section needs to be brought back. It is a good, informative sectionon the structure of the city. We'll get more input before it is brought back.--Nmajdan 20:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Some the external links should be removed too, The tulsa talk message board links to a site that hasnt been used in a year and hardly at that—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

also the section on Tulsa districts and neighborhoods needs to be condensed—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

  • On an unrelated note, I have an issue with somebody with such a negative perception regarding an article having such a heavy hand in the editing of that article. Why do you continue to change this article when your views on it are so wantonly negative?--Nmajdan 20:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
It's clear he doesn't want to participate other than to add his opinion. We should either ignore him or start a process to take action against him.
I restored a shortened version of the street system section to the article. The street system is unique in its orderliness and its use of cities east/west of the Mississippi for N-S running streets. I think it's noteworthy. --D Wilbanks 05:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the problem with this article is some people are too positive about Tulsa, and are trying to portray Tulsa using deception. In addition it is obvious I am not alone in my opinions of Tulsa.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

So thats why you removed a section about the street network? Because its too positive about Tulsa?--Nmajdan 21:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

No I removed it because it is worthless information, so what if avenues run north-south and streets run east-west in Tulsa,every road in the world goes in a certain direction. I guess you would like to include which way toilet bowls in Tulsa spin -counter clockwise or clockwise?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

Nevertheless, when you have several people involved in the editing of an article, you need to discuss it here and get peoples' opinions before taking action.--Nmajdan 03:36, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Tulsa was one of the first endenavours of master planning when it came to create a new city in the 1890s land boom. The deleted section on streets was either redundant or not interesting enough, because most Midwestern cities have the N-S/E-W straight street networks. Tulsa has an interstate system to serve a major city, but too typical for Wikipedia. You can see the freeways and the Tulsa Turnpike on the map enclosed in the article. B.t.w. Tulsa is in the Northern hemisphere, so those bowls spin counter-clockwise. What a warped kind of sense of humor. You need to ask Australians on that one. --Mike D 26 08:17, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Districts & Neighborhoods

In an effort to shorten the article, I think we should remove some of the less significant districts and neighborhoods. I want to discuss it here before taking action. Some ones I think can go are: Southern Hills, Kendall-Whittier, Terwilleger Heights, and Maple Ridge/Sunset Terrace. And actually, the last ttwo could probably be combined into one. According to the article, Sunset Terrace is bordered by Terwilleger on the east side, and Maple Ridge on the south side. Nevertheless, that part needs to be shrunk down and the ones with only 2-3 sentence descriptions should be the first to go.--Nmajdan 21:03, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree on Southern Hills and Terwilleger. I don't agree on Kendall-Whitter -- it was a significant neighborhood that has been gentrified. Sunset Terrace needs to be folded into Maple Ridge, the more significant "named" neighborhood. If you told me I could only keep one neighborhood of the four to highlight, I'd choose Maple Ridge. It has a number of historic oil mansions, as does Swan Lake.
I do wonder why we need so many neighborhoods listed. In my mind I'd only highlight Maple Ridge, Swan Lake, Brookside, Midtown (as a single piece and not broken down), Kendall-Whittier, Osage Hills, North Tulsa, West Tulsa (including Redfork), East Tulsa, and South Tulsa. That's ten areas, of which five are true neighborhoods. --D Wilbanks 23:42, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
It would be worth looking at what other cities have done. See Category:Neighborhoods of the United States. Generally each neighborhood would become it's own article. With a link back to either a "list of neighborhoods article" or a table itself. I would recommend someone look at some other cities see how they have tackled it and then be wp:bold.
The naming convention for neighborhood articles is usually "neighborhood name, city name". Does "South Tulsa, Tulsa" sound correct?
Finally often realtors often maintain city directories organized by what are the official neighborhood names and boundaries recognized by their business. Something like that should be the reference for neighborhood names should be.--Paul E. Ester 00:52, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I think our neighborhoods are significant and distinctive to Tulsa, these are the details that make Tulsa unique and I would hate to lose the content. I think Richmond, Virginia's content creators did a great job and would support a similar effort. --Talion Nelson 22:24, 16 June 2006
Hi Talion, were you referencing this approach? Neighborhoods_of_Richmond,_Virginia? Anyone hate it--Paul E. Ester 16:46, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I like that a lot, mainly because the neighborhoods are in their own article. But I do think it'd be a fairer approach. --D Wilbanks 00:10, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, you are correct; I mistakenly left out the link. ----Talion Nelson 22:39, 18 June 2006
Ok, I created this in my userspace. I haven't added any content yet (which will more than likely simple include a copy/paste of the current material) so its just an outline of the neighborhoods. Did I leave anything out? I'll try to write a couple paragraphs on the main page in place of the current content and then everybody else is free to change it.--NMajdan•talk 14:59, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Hey there Nmajdan ... still planning to work up the Neighborhoods of Tulsa article? --N35w101 04:00, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Ha. Actually, I completely forgot about this. Yes, I still would like to but feel free to step in if you wish. I got caught up in the OU article and WikiProject College football. I'll see what I can do over the next couple of days.--NMajdan•talk 17:46, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I moved the current neighborhood information to its own page.--NMajdan•talk 17:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Sweet. Just that one edit makes the article so much more readable. Thanks. --N35w101 22:57, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Nice work, makes a big difference thanks.--Paul E. Ester 14:25, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Question: do you think the Cityscape section, which is basically only one sentence now, could move into Geography? It has a redundant point about overall area which is better stated in Geography, and the rest would make a nice jumping point to the related child article. Also, maybe the Geography text regarding parks, etc could then be transferred to the child article too? --N35w101 15:31, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

What about the Eastland section where a shopping mall stands in the city's eastern edge? I'm sure someone will discuss the East side, not just the North and South sides, as well the West bank of the Arkansas river. The Cityscape article is constantly changing and narrowed down to a point the information is missing and incomplete. Revert the edits please, but proof-read and cut the info. down, because the parks and recreation thing can provide a sense of "things to do" to the reader. Tulsa city limits extend beyond the county line to Osage, Wagoner and Creek counties, in case anyone knew about it outside of Tulsa. --Mike D 26 08:21, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Population

Can someone link the 2004 census with the population information, or the info should be removed. There is no way to know the accuracy of the last edit, it could be vandalism, without the facts it's impossible to know if it should be reverted...--Paul E. Ester 01:22, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Bartlesville is quite a distance from Tulsa. There are towns of more significance that are a lot closer to Tulsa. I lived in Tulsa for 40 years and never thought of Bartlesville as a part of the Tulsa metro area. Tulsa is the activity center of "Green Country", which is northeastern Oklahoma. Bartlesville is not as important to Tulsa as Sapulpa, Broken Arrow, Jenks, or Owasso. I really just don't understand the reference to Bartlesville?(Rossmccauley 03:38, 13 January 2007 (UTC))

I tend to agree. Be bold and make whatever changes you feel are necessary. This article needs it.--NMajdan•talk 03:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Geography and climate

I have made many updates to this section in an effort to improve readability, etc. My updates were:

  • Streamlined repetitive text re temp & humidity spread between and among the sections
  • standardized measurement presentations, as some listed SI units first while others listed "British" units first. Since the US is officially metric since 1866 (not a typo) [1] whether or not we use it in every day life, I put the SI units first.
  • removed redundant latitude info in Climate and moved it all to geography. Ditto elevation
  • removed kissing tradition @ Woodward Park -- not everyone's tradition and arguably not encyclopedic.
  • removed relative distance from OKC info -- not needed or relevant given the lat/long information and mention of northeastern OK
  • tried to make small, readable, paragraphs with related information

--N35w101 01:14, 11 July 2006 (UTC)


Added a bit about ozone and it's affects to the Climate section. Wiki'ed appropriate links such as ozone, hydrocarbon, Clean Air Act, and E.P.A. If someone knows which Clean Air Act is most appropriate, a re-Wiki to that link, instead of the general article, would be great. --N35w101 15:24, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lists need to be trimmed

Suggestions:

This article incorporates too many "lists of links", contrary to (What) Wikipedia is not:

[A] Mere collections of external links or Internet directories. There is nothing wrong with adding one or more useful content-relevant links to an article; however, excessive lists can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia.

Further, articles are not:

Directories, directory entries, TV/Radio Guide or a resource for conducting business.

In short, removal of the extensive links to companies, places of worship, organisations and other external sites, not dealing specifically with the topic of Tulsa is necessary. If nothing more than a link can be said about an entry, then it probably isn't appropriate.

Further, please combine the multi-item sub-headings (and sub-sub-headings). The TOC is significantly too long. Not every subject deserves its own separate subheading.

(I started to edit this myself, but was called away) --LeflymanTalk 16:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

  • OK. Done. All sub-headings et al removed. I left all the content untouched (except Tulsa MSA) and replaced sub-headings with bold markups. My only objective was to reduce the TOC. Now the lists can be concentrated on. --N35w101 02:12, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism alert

Somebody left potentially offensive edits on Tulsa, since then was removed, as a city full of complete idiots and other stereotypes associated with Oklahoma. I copied it as soon I can: <vandalism refactored> Please note Wikipedia don't allow edits and statements that attack, defame, insult or offend any group of people, such as classist and regional slurs and it's a general stereotyping list of whites in the lower-income spectrum that do not make up the majority of people in Tulsa. --Mike D 26 08:26, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

  • When was this made -- I see no indication of any such recent vandalism in the article history. Additionally, there's no need to copy and repost vandalism. Simply revert to the previous version will delete it. In cases of serious, repeated vandalism, a warning should be placed on the offending user's (usually an anon IP) pages. Vandals rarely check talk pages to see if anyone noticed.--LeflymanTalk 15:10, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Looks like some anon IPs do follow the talk pages. 198.187.154.105 re-entered the vandalism comments, which I have subsequently removed again. Remember, talk pages are for discussions on improving the article itself, not for general discussions about the topic. See: What talk pages may be used for. --LeflymanTalk 17:35, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

It wasnt me this time, Looks like I have a second opinion, and you guys thought only one person was behind all the negative comments... Also Im not a vandal, I just talk in the discussion page —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.105 (talk • contribs).

I apologize for discussing the topic, but the article is the topic and how vandalism is an ominous threat to the article. Alright, an anonymous vandal is switching IPs and managed to acquire our member names. Please keep our eyes out for the vandal and whenever vandals strike again, track them down and report their mess to the administration board. Stereotypes can create a problem, in terms of wikiquette and can create an edit war. I hate it when a certain article draws in a negative stereotype, also known as "web trolling" to incite others and what they can do is damage the article. --Mike D 26 05:10, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I am not vandalizing this,I copied the comment from a vandal who said that Tulsa is full hicks and is a scene from a Jerry Springer episode. Im sorry but the discussion is vandalism. To merely quote a vandal does not make someone a vandal.

The vandal also stated that Tulsa is full of Racists. Mind you, I did not say this, I am merely quoting the vandal.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Additional sources for citation

To bring this (and its associated History of Tulsa, Oklahoma) article in compliance with Wikipedia policy on verifiability. Here are some reliable sources which could be used for citation:

--LeflymanTalk 15:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Archive

I archived some of the older discussions from this page as well as some of the discussions that lacked signatures.--NMajdan•talk 17:58, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nickname?

Tulsa has many nicknames, so at least one should be included, but the nicknames don't show up after the edit to the city tab? If more than one nickname is not acceptable, we should try to decide which nickname is most viable. But at least one of Tulsa's nicknames should be included beside "motto" in the city tab. --Okiefromokla 23:03, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

It was because the attribute was "nicknames" and it must be the singular "nickname."--NMajdan•talk 23:23, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

What nickname? America's most beautiful city? This states the opposite, http://www.planetizen.com/node/15 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06023/642641.stm The reference to Tulsa as "America's most beautiful city" needs to be removed, because for one it is not true, and two it is opinion.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

Yes, unless we have an article citation calling Tulsa America's Most Beautiful City, it needs to be removed. Opinions are allowed on Wikipedia, but not the opinions of editors. There has to be a documentable source of the opinion.--NMajdan•talk 19:25, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I removed most of the nicknames. I left one because I found a source and a reason for the nickname. "Green Country" is not really a nickname of Tulsa but a name used in reference to the northeastern portion of the state. Tulsa is no longer the "Oil Capital of the World" so I removed that as well. And as far as "America's Most Beautiful City," I found a reference to that but it was a website marketing Tulsa and therefore not NPOV.--NMajdan•talk 19:35, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I have to say I strongly disagree, being from Tulsa myself. Both "Oil Capital of the World" and "America's most beautiful city" are common terms you hear every day in tulsa and they both have strong hitorical significance. Tulsa was founded on oil and the implications of that are still everywhere. Granted, "oil capital of the world" is more just nostalgia, but it is still a nickname of Tulsa commonly used and known by any one who has ever lived in Tulsa, even if it isn't technically relevant today.

Quote,"Both "Oil Capital of the World" and "America's most beautiful city" are common terms you hear every day in tulsa."

You hear these common terms everyday?I heard Oil Capital of the world, but then I hear That the title belongs to Houston now. Americas most beautiful city? Never heard it, so I dont see it used everyday when I have never heard it.

Second of all, I fail to see how an online article about Tulsa's road problems disproves anything. So, with that said, I will move on to say: Of course it is opinion. All nicknames are opinions and everyone has different opinions. But it was an official coined term for Tulsa in the middle 20th century, like the article says, and also like the article says, it is just a testiment to Tulsa's art, parks, location, and the "boasting" of Tulsan's that their city has abundant natural beauty. Oddly enough, it is not a term meant to seriously say Tulsa is the most beuaitful city in America--just a refrence to Tulsa's history and it current beauty. No one is going to take the term "America's most beautiful city" seriously. Besides, there are buildboards in Tulsa that call Tulsa "America's most beautiful City." I think it is perfectly justified being in the article; it has historical significance and it is a modern term also. Opinion or not, nickname's often reflect citizen's pride in the city. Wikipedia articles about cities should reflect the local flavor. Now, I wouldn't be so opposed to the paragraph in the article that referrs to the nickname to be rewritten to more strongly emphisize that it is just Tulsa lore and common bias boasting of Tulsans and not an official designation by any oragnization. Now I am sure someone is going to reply to this and disagree that Tulsa is a beautiful city but that is not the question here. The name has historical significance, and like it or not, it is used by Tulsans. Hey, it's even on billboards! Sorry for rambiling; case and point. --Okiefromokla 19:40, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

"America's Most Beautiful City" is NOT a term you hear all the time in the city. I understand the historical reasoning for "Oil Capital of the World" but unless some nationally recognized newspaper/magazine/etc named Tulsa Most Beautiful, it is opinionated and does not belong on the page. The fact is, every city wants to claim that title and unless the requirement for external, reliable sources is upheld, any city could. We want our article to be verifiable.--NMajdan•talk 19:57, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok,read this http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06023/642641.stm And this website states that Seattle "America's most beautiful city" http://news.cheapflights.com/airlines/2005/10/seattle_america.html—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

I think the first displayed website shows how common Tulsan's refer to themselves as "America's most beuatiful city". I'm not saying its litterally true. But if a website goes out to argue against that, it tells me that is is a common nickname. Wikipedia needs to capture local flavor in here too, and I think the current Tulsa wiki article explains pretty well the background for the "America's most beautiful city" in Tulsa. Also, I would ask you to re read my above comments, so I don't have to repeat that the nickname isn't meant to say that Tulsa truly is America's most beautiful city, but a simple reference to history and it's current abundance of parks, waterways and its location in the Ozarks. The simple truth is that it is a common name in Tulsa language and it should be mentioned in the wiki article. --Okiefromokla 19:52, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

NO the displayed website is saying that the title "America's most beautiful city" is wrong.How can you try to twist what they are sayiing?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

Tulsa’s nickname (both in a modern and historical context) as “America’s most beautiful city” is cited in the following websites, encyclopedia articles and news articles: www.us-american-flags.com/nicknames/cities.htm, www.tulsaoklahoma.quickseek.com, www.travelok.com/travelProf/tours_packages.asp?id=48, www.virtualtulsa.com/tulsa.htm, www.tulsatvmemories.com/gb062701.html, www.batesline.com/archives/cat_tulsahistory.html, www.about-oklahoma.com, www.mayohotel.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=15, www.hillcrest.com/hr/physician_listings/trmc_nephrology.asp, www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11082, www.top20tulsa.com/ These articles show that Tulsa historically was known as “America’s most beautiful city” and also that it is still referred to as such today. Also, “Oil capital of the world” and “America’s most beautiful city” are both nicknames for Tulsa listed in the Wikipedia article List_of_city_nicknames_in_the_United_States—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Okiefromokla (talk • contribs).

As for "Oil capital of the world", Houston, is also named that in List_of_city_nicknames_in_the_United_States, As for the other websites, they promote Tulsa to tourists, etc. Stop perpetrating a lie. As for Terra Cotta City, I like that nickname, It kinda fits Tulsa as a whole, it doesnt mean anything, its just kinda there.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

You are going to open the whole article with this? What Tulsa used to be? You just proved my point excatly!!!! "Tulsa is often referred to as "Green Country," a reference to the Oklahoma Department of Tourism's designation for Northeastern Oklahoma. Also, once coined as "America's Most Beautiful City" in the middle part of the 20th Century by magazines and as a tourism tactic, the nickname remains as a tribute to Tulsa's heritage in art (the city spends millions of dollars each year in public art), its art deco architecture, its 6,000-acre park system, and its location in a typically-lush area of the Ozarks foothills". Following the "Oil Bust" of 1982-84, the title of "Oil Capital of the World" was basically relinquished to Houston, and city leaders began working to diversify the city away from a largely petroleum-based economy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs) 15:34, July 17, 2006 (UTC)

What is Tulsa nicknamed currently? That should be the most important, not "was once" or "was coined"

Also the term Green country is so....OK, Much of the worlds land mass is green, how...typical—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

What is the point of this response?--NMajdan•talk 20:49, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Terra Cotta City is the current nickname and should be recognized as the current nickname.

"Oil capital of the world", America's Most Beautiful City", These nicknames are as fleeting as feathers in the wind, they dont stick unless their true.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

Your condescending nature takes the fun out of editing Wikipedia. This comment is in regards to the part of your previous comment that you edited out. This article will never improve because eventually people will tire of hearing your complaints regarding every edit they make. Your idea of constructive criticism consistently flirts with the border of incivility.--NMajdan•talk 21:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Come on, "America's most beautiful City"? This was used as a tourism tactic, which obviously failed, Tulsa paid some magazine to label them.I dont think it is very realistic,truthful and is not in good taste to decieve readers of the Tulsa article as to it being "America's most Beautiful City" The Post-Gazette does'nt believe it [[2]]nor do Wikipedians.

"Oil Capital of the World" belongs to Houston as the article states,there can't be two oil capitals.List_of_city_nicknames_in_the_United_States,If the label "Oil Capital of the World" it should be used as "hasbeen" or "was once" and not in the opening sentences.


May I suggest a diplomatic solution for the time being? How about dropping all the nicknames, at least for now? There are a handful of cities where the nickname is indisputable & world reknown ... 'The Big Apple' for NYC & 'The City of Lights' for Paris come to mind. When someone says there are from 'The Big Apple', it doesn't cause a blank stare of confusion, nor do they say 'Which one, New York or Hackensack?'. These, I would think, are the kinds of nicknames that deserve mention in an encyclopedia. But does every city need to have a nickname mentioned just because the city infobox has a spot? Since this topic generates so much friction regarding Tulsa, maybe the time isn't right to make mention of any of it's nicknames past, present, self-proclaimed or proclaimed/used less-than-universally. How about a cool-off period? Disclaimer: I live in Tulsa. I voluntarily returned here after living on the East coast for several years. I think Tulsa's a fine city. I don't care what it's nickname is -- I call it Tulsa when people ask where I'm from. --N35w101 02:18, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


OK, let me just say this to everyone: we, in Wikipedia, are not trying to determine if these nicknames are appropriate for the city of Tulsa or if these nicknames should be nicknames for the city of Tulsa. We are only trying to decide if they are nicknames of the city of Tulsa. Not if we like them or not. Now, we have established a credible source for "Terra Cotta City" as one nickname. It is obvious that "Oil Capital of the World" was a slogan used for many years and is still important to Tulsa today, if not for anything but nostalgia. Just for that reason, it should be mentioned in the article at the very least - and we can debate (I guess) whether it should be in the city tab. "America's Most Beautiful City" is an opinion, yes, but it is a nickname of Tulsa. And the credible sources are these: http://www.us-american-flags.com/nicknames/cities.htm , http://www.travelok.com/travelProf/tours_packages.asp?id=48 , http://http://www.about-oklahoma.com/

In any wikipedia article, 3 professional non-bias sources are enough to incorporate something into the article. Now let's face it, whether you like it, agree with it, or think it is a good nickname or not, it is there. We should drop this argument at this thought: that we should keep the mention of "America's Most Beautiful City" in the article itself, perhaps using one of those three websites as a reference. But we can keep the nickname out of the city tab, and leave "Terra Cotta City" and at least one other, because I think "Oil Capital of the World" and "Green Country" both have a pretty good basis in Tulsa and any Tulsan would tell you that those two nicknames identify with the city of Tulsa, there is no argument for that... Houston or no Houston. Compromise? --Okiefromokla 03:15, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

(I would also like to add that the fact that the post-gazzette wrote an editorial section on Tulsa being "America's most beautiful city" just proves that it is a well enough known nickname for Tulsa that a newspaper from across the country would bother trying to argue against it. We shouldn't care if they are arguing against it, we don't cite opinionated editorials in Wikipedia, just like we shouldn't care if a newspaper argues against Paris being the "City of Love". We are just trying to determine if these nicknames really do exist. Obviously, it is commonly known enough for a newspaper to write about it!) And you will get plenty of non-editorial-like results on Google under Tulsa +"America's most beautiful city" --Okiefromokla 03:23, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll agree with mentioning "American's Most Beautiful City" in the article as long as there is a statement explaining its not an official nickname and one more for city-marketing purposes in preserve a NPOV. Same thing for "Oil Capital of the World" as long as there is an explanation that it is more historical and Houston now has that title. "Green Country" is not a nickname for Tulsa. It is a term to refer to the entire northeastern Oklahoma and thus should not be a Tulsa nickname. In the actual Infobox, Terra Cotta City is the only one I can think of a being an actual nickname despite it not being a well-known nickname. Maybe the field should just be left blank.--NMajdan•talk 13:07, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I am pretty much satisfied with the way the article is now. "Oil capital of the world" is still in the info box and I am not going to take it off because it is an obvious nickname for Tulsa; Tulsa identifies with that nickname more than any other even though it isnt actually the oil hub of the country anymore. At the very least, leave terra-cotta city in there like you said, but I think we should just leave it how it is. The article explains the "Oil Capital of the World" thing right off the bat. --Okiefromokla 19:35, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree, We can leave it in for now, but Tulsa USED to be the Oil Capital, Tulsa does not hold that title anymore,it is not current. It should be soon.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

"Oil Capital of the World" is not an official title bestowed upon a city from on high. Tulsa has been referred to by this phrase since the oil boom. Houston may also be referred to as the Oil Capital of the World, but Tulsa is known worldwide by this name. I have heard "America's Most Beautiful City" used in reference to Tulsa more times than I care to mention (not speaking to the accuracy of the statement), so I think it should stay. The term "Green Country" does not originate with the tourism department as the article suggests, but has been a term for NE Oklahoma since its recovery from the Dust Bowl. The numerous man-made lakes and irrigation projects throughout the area resulted in a green explosion. (This could be added to the article but would need citation.) I'm going to remove the tourism reference since it is inaccurate. Also, the term "Terra-Cotta City" may have been used at some point to refer to Tulsa, but it is hardly a widley use nickname. It is not as important to the culture and history of Tulsa as "Oil Capital" or even "America's Most Beautiful City". I'm going to remove this one too just because it is extraneous. --Farous 02:19, 22 August 2006.
One more thing. The city motto: "Where the South Meets the West"...um, no. That might be a tagline written by the tourist industry, but it is definitely not the city motto. Maybe "Where the North Meets the Southwest" would be more accurate, but that isn't the motto either. I'm pretty sure we don't have one so i'm axing it. --Farous 02:40, 22 August 2006.

Someone reverted the nicknames back to "Oil Capital" and "America's Most Beautiful City"

[edit] Major Changes to Article... feature status?

I have been doing a lot of list-eliminating lately. I took out the huge list of attractions and turned it into paragraphs. Its obvious when you look at the table of contents. I also made a sports team table under the "sports" subsection of the "Entertainment and Attractions" section. There is still a list of interstates and highways and it looks a little combersome but I can live with it if other people think it is OK. I think this article is getting closer to feature article status. Anyone agree? Maybe add some more references and eliminate 1 or 2 more lists? I would also like to see another picture of Tulsa's skyline and/or the Arkansas River in Tulsa added. Everyone loves pictures. Oh, and one more thing, I took out the "this section does not site its references" thing at the bottom of the page. I think the article is ok on references now, but like I said, a few more would be very good. So lets hear those suggestions for making this article fit for feature status. (or, maybe it is already fit?) --Okiefromokla 20:25, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

This article is far from featured status. Some more detailed editing and maybe put it up for peer review.--NMajdan•talk 23:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I tend to agree. But there is no reason it couldn't be with a little work. What exactly would you suggest, Nmajdan? We should put it on the to-do list at the top of this discussion page so we can have a list of specific things that need to be done to make it a feature article. I am not really ready to consider this article a "high quality" article and ready for peer review. But... I think we should look at Amarillo, Texas. It is listed as a "Good Article" and it has a lot of "meat" and makes the Tulsa article's sections look somewhat scrony. It also has a good assortment of pictures. Maybe we should just aim for getting Tulsa to a "good article" status and then go from there. --Okiefromokla 00:22, 24 July 2006 (UTC) ... OK, I went ahead and changed the to-do list for this article. I think these things are important for getting Tulsa to a top-notch article. --Okiefromokla 01:03, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Automated Peer review

there is a script that does an automated peer review. See User:AndyZ/peerreviewer.js it could be useful for feedback--Paul E. Ester 19:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I have that. Here are the results:

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and may or may not be accurate for the article in question.

  • Per WP:CONTEXT and WP:MOSDATE, months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.
  • Per WP:MOS, avoid using words/phrases that indicate time periods relative to the current day. For example, recently might be terms that should be replaced with specific dates/times.[1]
  • Per WP:WIAFA, Images should have concise captions.[2]
  • Per WP:MOSNUM, there should be a non-breaking space - &nbsp; between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 18mm, use 18 mm, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 18&nbsp;mm.[3]
  • Per WP:MOSNUM, when doing conversions, please use standard abbreviations: for example, miles -> mi, kilometers squared -> km2, and pounds -> lb.
  • Per WP:MOSNUM, please spell out source units of measurements in text; for example, "the Moon is 380,000 kilometres (240,000 mi) from Earth.[4]
  • Per WP:CONTEXT and WP:BTW, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006, but do not link January 2006.[5]
  • As per WP:MOSDATE, dates shouldn't use th; for example, instead of using January 30th was a great day, use January 30 was a great day.
  • Please reorder/rename the last few sections to follow guidelines at WP:GTL.
  • Per WP:WIAFA, this article's table of contents (ToC) maybe too long- consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per WP:SS.[6]
  • Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
    • While additive terms like “also”, “in addition”, “additionally”, “moreover”, and “furthermore” may sometimes be useful, overusing them when they aren't necessary can instead detract from the brilliancy of the article. This article has 33 additive terms, a bit too much.
    • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
    • Temporal terms like “over the years”, “currently”, “now”, and “from time to time” often are too vague to be useful, but occasionally may be helpful. “I am now using a semi-bot to generate your peer review.”
  • As is done in WP:FOOTNOTE, for footnotes, the footnote should be located right after the punctuation mark, such that there is no space inbetween. For example, change blah blah [2]. to blah blah.[2]
  • Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that the it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 2a. [7]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, NMajdan•talk 19:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tulsa,Oklahoma Focus

I would like to delete everything in this article that is not about the city of tulsa. That means river shopping/fish/airports in Jenks, shopping in broken arrow , the Will Rogers Memorial , J.M. Davis Arms and Historical Museum, cherokee casino, the Tulsa Metropolitan Statistical Area if such a beast exists should be in it's own article., the port of catoosa etc...

Any reasons for keeping stuff about jenks in the tulsa article? Should that not be in the jenks article. The info in wikipedia should strive to be correct and minimize redundancy on both pages.

I get the feeling the tulsa page is stealing content from other areas...There is a tulsa county article that might fit the bill for some of that. - any thoughts? --Paul E. Ester 00:30, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

No, with all due respect, I disagree absolutely and totally. The suburbs run together with the actual proper city of Tulsa, but it is all one entity in a practical and political mindset. The article does not go into depth about the suburbs (because that would be unnecessary) but it does reflect the interconnectedness of the suburbs with the parent city, Tulsa. The Jenks riverwalk and outlying museums are Tulsa tourist attractions and associated with the city of Tulsa. I see no detailed information about any of the suburbs in the article except for the highpoints of the suburbs, such as the Jenks riverwalk, museums, etc. These places feed off the city of Tulsa proper and people come to Tulsa for these places. You don’t go to Jenks for the Oklahoma Aquarium, for example... you go to Tulsa.

You can't possibly argue that because the Arco Arena, the venue for the Sacramento Kings, is outside the actual city limits of Sacramento, that the Kings shouldn't be included in the Sacramento article, or that the Dallas Cowboys shouldn't be in the Dallas wiki article because they play in Arlington. Or that the Bronx shouldn't be included in the New York City article. The Tulsa Port of Catoosa, the Jenks riverwalk, etc, are part of Tulsa. These are things that affect and apply to Tulsa immensely and shouldn't be excluded from the article. Think of it this way: if what you were suggesting were true, what would be the point of the Wiki bots adding the statistics of the metropolitan area in each large city's article? This article is about the entity of Tulsa. --Okiefromokla 03:50, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

  • The Bronx is the northernmost of the five Boroughs of New York City
  • The ARCO Arena is an indoor arena located in Sacramento, California
  • The Dallas article appears to be of poor quality based on my quick :observation of the non encyclopedic nature of the culture section which without citiation asserts:
"Dallasites are very fond of their local sports teams especially "America's Team," the Dallas Cowboys. The Cowboys—five time Super Bowl champions—are well loved by locals, even during losing seasons, and even if another local team is a leader in its sport. Sports calendars and other memorabilia are very common, and on Sundays people tend to watch sports games on television."
They get it a little better in the sports section attributing the cowboys to irving. But I digress and disagree, the Jenks riverwalk is not part of the city of Tulsa, it is part of Jenks in Tulsa Co.
Heres an example of the problem "In addition, the city has been enticing developers to develop along the river. The "Riverwalk Crossing," a dining, shopping and entertainment walking district aside the Oklahoma Aquarium in Jenks," which city enticed the developers? which city dealt with the zoning? which city funded the infrastructure? --Paul E. Ester 07:02, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe the peer review is a little premature. The items in the to-do list should have been accomplished before the peer review. Nevertheless, we need to start by looking through other city articles that are featured and see their layout and content. They include Detroit, Ann Arbor, Boston, Cleveland, Louisville, KY, Marshall, Texas, San Jose, CA, and Seattle.--NMajdan•talk 13:43, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

OK. I removed the peer review. But as for the mention of the suburbs in this article, I'm glad to see someone showing an interest in trying to make some dramatic changes to this article for the better again. It’s been a while. And I agree with the ideas presented here about keeping the article focused on the city of Tulsa, despite my previous arguments. However, upon reviewing the article, there are minimal mentions of the suburbs (the only real mention is of the Jenks Riverwalk, and it is a good excuse to put a picture in). I think it is justified in this specific instance. Giving the example of the Jenks Riverwalk as "the first of many developments planned or under construction along the Arkansas River in the Tulsa area," is, in my opinion, a good way to illustrate the continued river development in the Tulsa area, which are also taking place inside the city limits. And, I would also like to point out that the city of Tulsa did indeed entice developers to develop the river in the area. These specific developers just happened to build the riverwalk in Jenks, a total of 5 feet from the "official" Tulsa city limits. (in other words, it was Tulsa that got the ball rolling for river development within its immediate area.)

Perhaps it would be better to mention the specific comparison of the Jenks Riverwalk to nearby river projects in the city limits? Such as Kings Pointe Landing?

While on the subject of suburbs, I would like to point out that Oklahoma City has a separate, albeit crude, article for its Metropolitan Area ( see here, and perhaps Tulsa should too (minus the crude part)? The TSMA doesn’t only include Tulsa county, there is much beyond that. --Okiefromokla 17:26, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

The article looks alot better, it is not as much as a tourist brochure.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Sports team logos

Someone removed the logos in the sports team table, citing some rule that logos cant simply serve a decoratve purpose. Perhaps this person should go and remove the sports team logos from the sports table in every single wikipedia article? Someone should put the logos back...--4.244.99.188 18:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

This is currently the subjected of a very heated debate (see here, here, here, and here to name a few). Unfortunately, the way they were used on this page does violate the fair use rules. So those image will not be coming back.--NMajdan•talk 18:57, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I want the logos there too. But I would like to point out that it is true that none of the feature article cities have their sports team's logos displayed anywhere on the page. Yes, it is unfortunate because I personally see nothing wrong with it; it might even add something to the page. People love to look at things other than words, and this is true in encylopedias just as much. But on the other hand, I see how it might be considered a violation of that rule. So yes, unfortunently until the powers that be decide otherwise theres really nothing we can do. --Okiefromokla 03:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TU LAW

I just want to mention that TU law should be recognized as a world class law school and should be mentioned in the article. TU law is regarded as one of the highest ranking law schools in the country.

http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/index.php/4/desc/GPALow —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs) 14:41, 24 September 2006.

  • Actually, TU Law is ranked rather low by the standards of US News and World Report -- it's in Tier 4, ranking 88 for 2007. TU lauds this as an "ascent", as it was ranked at 93 the previous year. --LeflymanTalk 19:16, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Population Density

The population density does not seem correct. Normally, the density is less per km² than m². I calculated the density to be 801.58 km² and 2122 m². Because I do not know these to be the correct numbers, I do not want to change the main page. I could not find any information backing these figures, so if the correct numbers are found please add them. 204.117.197.4 15:35, 30 October 2006 (UTC)cmarie

[edit] Tallest buildings list

Eh, another list. I won't delete it yet as I want to assume good faith on behalf of the anon contributor. However, I don't see a need for a list of Tulsa's tallest buildings as no other city article has one. I won't be against including a parenthetical description of a few of Tulsa's tallest buildings (since Tulsa's tallest building is also Oklahoma's tallest building) in another section such as, oh, I don't know, cityscape? I'd like to hear some opinions from other contributors as well before I take action.--NMajdan•talk 16:04, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

  • I've removed the section (duplicated below). Few of the buildings are notable enough to warrant their own Wikipedia entries, and a tabular list of "Tulsa's tallest buildings" would likely be deleted were it a separate article. Such minutia is not appropriate to Wikipedia.--LeflymanTalk 23:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Tallest Buildings

Building Height in feet Stories
One Williams Center 667 feet 52
Cityplex 648 feet 60
First Place Tower 516 feet 41
Mid Continent Tower 513 feet 36
Bank of America - Tulsa 412 feet 32
320 South Boston Bldg. 400 feet 22
110 West 7th Bldg. 388 feet 28
University Club Tower 377 feet 32
Cityplex West 348 feet 30
Philtower 343 feet 24
Liberty Tower - Tulsa 254 feet 23
Williams Center *** 23
Boulder Tower 254 feet 15
Mayo Hotel 252 feet 18
First National Bank Bldg. 250 feet 20
Cityplex East 248 feet 20
One Warren Place *** 20
410 West 7th *** 20
450 West 7th *** 20
Two Warren Place *** 19
Remington Tower *** 18
DoubleTree Hotel *** 18
Oneok Place *** 17
Williams Center *** 17
Yorktown *** 16
Williams Technology Center *** 15
Warren Clinic *** 15
Thompson Bldg. 215 feet 15
Adams Building 192 feet 13
Petroluem Club Tower 192 feet 16
Amoco Building - Tulsa 167 feet 14

Most of the buildings are empty or have high vacancy rates because the oil companies left, put that in the article.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

Thought you might like to know that the anon IP user who added the list can be quite persistent. We have been reverting the addition of a similar list added to Brisbane for the last week or so. Not only does the user readd the list, but they revert back to the version losing any subsequent edits by other users. Rimmeraj 21:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Among other edits, 75.40.200.220 (talk • contribs) re-added this list to the article. I did a revert, but retained their edits to Tulsa in popular culture. --Kralizec! (talk) 21:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

  • The edits converting the entries in the Pop culture section to tables should also be removed. Tables should not be used for the presentation of content, as they are particularly difficult to edit. See WP:TABLE.--LeflymanTalk 01:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

http://www.tulsaworld.com/BusinessStory.asp?ID=070130_Bu_E1_Offic45349 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs) 11:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tulsa in popular culture

On an episode of I Love Lucy, Tulsa is mentioned.

This is possibly the most tenuous and contrived entry I have ever seen on Wikipedia. I haven't removed it from the article as I haven't seen the I Love Lucy episode (nor the series actually) so if anyone knows if the "mention" is notable or just one in passing by a character then please note it here. 172.141.159.129 00:23, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh please, just be bold and delete it. I think that whole section needs to go cause it borderlines on WP:OR.--NMajdan•talk 01:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

What about the Motel 6 commercial where they stated that their rooms are much better than "visiting relatives in Tulsa?"

[edit] Transportation

Left out is any mention of railroads in either Tulsa's history or its present-day transportation system. Luring railroads into Tulsa was a key component of the early Tulsa boosters' agenda, and the tracks of the Saint Louis-San Francisco (Frisco) Railroad are what determined both the orientation of downtown Tulsa and the original dividing line between north and south Tulsa. At one point, Tulsa was served by not only the Frisco, but also the Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe, the Missouri-Kansas-Texas (Katy), and the Midland Valley lines, and one of its art deco showpieces downtown is the now-rennovated Tulsa Union Depot.

Today, the Burlington Northern Santa Fe operates Cherokee Yard--one of the largest sorting yards in the entire BNSF system--just to the west of US-75 where it passes along Southwest Boulevard. The Union Pacific operates a much smaller yard near 51st and Garnett. In addition, short lines such as the Tulsa-Sapulpa-Union Railroad and the Sand Springs Railroad also serve Tulsa's surface transportation needs.Randall123 22:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Jeez, how much info belongs in the article? This article was longer that the article for NYC!! How is that possible? Too much information about Avenues going North-South, Streets East-West, Long lists of "attractions" (lol), all chest puffing and fluffing, look at the NYC article, short, simple, dont try to put in different things such as "Tourists Attractions", we have no Attractions or Tourists.The article is fine the way it is—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.187.154.33 (talk • contribs).

Did you just contradict yourself? This article needs major help. Some of it is great content, some of it, not-so-much. However, Tulsa's role in Rail Transportation may be worth mentioning in the article.--NMajdan•talk 22:17, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The street network needs to be deleted or seriously shortened too. I guess it was a bit contradicting, In other words dont make the article any longer than it is now.

[edit] Companies with a Large Presence in Tulsa

What happened to the list?

[edit] Today's reverts

I reverted several edits because I felt adding local pseudo-celebrities and bands that fail WP:BAND would further degrade an already below-average article. If the editor who made the changes wishes to defend his edits, please feel free to do so. After all, nobody owns this article.↔NMajdan•talk 17:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

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