Talk:Tudela, Navarre

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Tudela

It is all very well relying on old material from an encyclopedia, but it seems to be out of date - for example the writers weren't aware that Ibn Ezra may have been from Tudela. Similarly, according to the Spanish Wikipedia, Yehuda HaLevi was born in Tudela, whereas in the English article on him he was born in Toledo! --Alan 09:01, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I have done a lot of tidying up - in my opinion this article was sub-standard. It still needs some work --Alan 10:15, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

The article could do with input from someone who knows about the history of Muslim Spain. --Alan 17:26, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tudela = Toledo?

Rabbi Berel Wein said on at least two tapes that Tudela was just the Jewish vernacular of saying Toledo. Like Brisk is Brest-Litovsk, Telz is Telšiai, Dvisk is Daugavpils, etc... They Judaized the name of the cities so that they would not have to refer to the city by the same name that their gentile neighbors used. What does everyone think about this idea from Rabbi Wein? --רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 21:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I think he's full of it. Jews in Eastern Europe spoke their own language, so it was natural that they had their own names for towns, and these names were simplifications of the original. In Spain the Jews spoke the same language as their neighbours, so there'd be no reason for a separate name to have evolved, and in any case "Tudela" is not a simplification of "Toledo".

But the most obvious proof that Wein is wrong – as he frequently is – is that Toledo and Tudela are both cities that existed then and still exist; given that fact, it would require strong proof that when Jews said "Tudela" they didn't mean the city with that name, but rather another city over 400 km away! Unless Wein offers such proof, I think it's more probable to say that he simply doesn't realise that they're separate cities.

Zsero 23:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Gee that's very respectful of Rabbi Wein. --רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 15:04, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

And your point is? Zsero 15:21, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I was being sarcastic. Please have respect for people who are greater than you are. רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 16:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Wein is a poser. 21:28, 11 August 2006 (UTC)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zsero (talk • contribs) .

You can't back yourself up because you know that's not true. I can't see why anyone would dislike Rabbi Wein. רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 04:54, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

He may be a very nice person, but he's not half the historian he pretends to be, and I feel no need to respect his views, or to assume he wouldn't make a mistake. Zsero 21:14, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

The difference between you and me is that I would probably suggest that I made a mistaek and probably misunderstood Rav Wein rather than to just plainly dismiss him like you have done. WHERE IS YOUR RESPECT, MAN? רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 22:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Why should I have any particular respect for his opinions? What is this, his class or something? He's neither a huge scholar nor a "gadol hador". He's just a guy who's read a lot, and has opinions. If he says something that makes sense to me, I'll accept it; if what he says seems to me improbable, then I won't. Zsero 07:52, 18 August 2006 (UTC)