Talk:Tuckerman Ravine

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Needs a better picutre - one with snow.

M@

• Keep this one, which portrays a good way to the summit, but it should appear below one from the same point, with snow and skiers. --Jerzy (t) 04:38, 2005 Mar 10 (UTC)

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[edit] Sno-Cat trail

I can't make any sense out of

the moderate, 2.4 mi "cat" trail, and a separate ski trail for the return

1. The trails have names, which don't include "cat" (although there are lots of "... Cat Trail" names of downhill ski trails, across the road from the Prezzies within the commercial Wildcat Ridge ski area).
2. AFAIK no sno-cats are used in Tucks, altho there is a proposal (unlikely, i am told, to win the needed consent of the White Mtn Ntl Forest managers) to chauffeur skiers who probably aren't hardy enough to be up there in winter, starting in 2006.
3. This may be a muddling of the fact that the rangers do use a snowmobile or two at a time to make the trip between Pinkham Notch and the Hermit Lake ranger cabin in the Ravine. But i'm pretty sure (from having seen their tracks in the snow) that they cut back and forth between the Tuckerman Ravine Trail and the parallel ski trail, which would make the statement misleading even if they carried non-employees up (or non-injured non-employees down).
4. Sno-Cats do operate on Mt W in winter, along the Auto Road.
   1. They supply & rotate staff for the Observatory at the summit.
   2. They carry skiers as far as the tree line (i'm told state law, and not just common sense about public safety, forbids carrying them higher), but all of Huntington Ravine lies between those skiers and Tucks.

--Jerzy (t) 06:00, 2005 Mar 10 (UTC)

Think of "Cat trail" is an engineering term, like "logging road" or "railroad grade", which should help those unfamiliar with the trail understand the width and grade of the trail (since it's used for sno-cats). Case in point: my group was returning from Hermit in Tucks last week, Sunday afternoon, down the Tucks Trail, and a red Sno-cat and two snowmobiles forced us off the trail while they passed us, right at the switchbacks! The snow ranger was driving the cat. Hence, I assumed it was a cat-trail when I wrote about the trail. I have also see photos of other enclosed cat machines using that trail for SAR evac and moving equipment. Lupinelawyer 02:08, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for correcting my misconception! This input makes me maybe want a link to an article not on a specific class of machinery but to classes of roads and trails, including grade (geography) and some rating that reflects traction provided and acrobatics required (for vehicles and walkers respectively!) with various recent weather histories, and the capabilities of classes of machinery (and typical calorie consumption by walkers?).

In any case, can we agree that we lack evidence (barring the eventual success of the proposed commercial operation in getting the permission i understand to be needed) of relevance of the Sno-Cats to uninjured tourists? In that case, Sno-Cats are IMO not just irrelevant but misleading, since they distract from the importance of the individual qualifications and the exposure, the windspeeds, and the unusual degree of weather instability, that are really as important to tourists (among whom i'm including you, and my true love, who descended the same route as you, the day before you [smile]) as is the mechanical properties of the trail itself.

--Jerzy (t) 23:14, 2005 Mar 13 (UTC)

Pretty sure the cat-trail terminology is somewhat relevant to hikers and skiers. It just means this isn't a hiking trail, but rather a graded "road" that is also used by hikers.Lupinelawyer 02:10, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Here again, your info abt the terminology may be better than mine, but have you see the trail w/o snow? It is far less accessible to, e.g., SUVs than is, e.g., a trail i saw go in an hour or so from an unequivocal mere foottrail to a fire road. It's not only full of big rocks that haven't been removed for three-season access by vehicles: the many water bars across it, that have been built up on their downhill sides and dug or eroded deeper on their uphill sides, are an object of griping by three-season hikers, and far more hostile to vehicles than even the sort of logging roads that have protruding rocks painted day-glo red in the middle of them, and annually need work to reopen after spring washouts. My (admittedly untutored) notion of "graded road" doesn't include this; i would believe it if i were told the two or three broad bridges are that wide just for the winter vehicles we've been discussing. --Jerzy (t) 06:20, 2005 Mar 14 (UTC)

Consulting a White Mtn. pro reveals that "cat-trail" is right on the money, with the cat being used to intentionally dress the trail -- i think that means they make a trip in fresh snow, whether or not there's need for delivering some-thing/-one, lest the climbers pack down a narrower hard path that could eventually interfere with the sno-cat's progress. (The snowmobiles' detours apparently reflect mainly access to intermediate destinations, e.g., to resupply emergency caches of first-aid supplies, avalanche probes, etc.)
I reworded rather than restoring the original language, hoping it will be clearer in various ways.
--Jerzy (t) 22:12, 2005 Mar 23 (UTC)

[edit] Powered transport of skiers

On a different topic: Where can we wedge in the rule that says you can't ski into Tucks from the autoroad or from the Cog, or anywhere else above the headwall? Local news sources say it's a $500 fine to enter on skis from any direction except from below. Lupinelawyer 02:10, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I agree this is relevant; let's find a way. (Do they back me up on citing state rather than Natl Forest Svc authority? If not clear, i know the state's general statutes are on-line.)

This also brings to mind the tale of a snowmobiler, a year or two back, being stopped at Hermit Lake despite the intent of continuing beyond it! I wish i knew enough detail to write abt that.

--Jerzy (t) 06:20, 2005 Mar 14 (UTC)

Need to add the Toni Matt story. The Inferno race(s) etc.

M@ 04:50, 10 March 2006 (UTC) Speaking of fines, I've heard rumors that it is illegal to ski naked in the ravine, a thing I have seen time at least 4 times.

[edit] TUX

It's called TUX. Please actually visit this place and look at the thousands of repetitive T shirts that say TUX in 300 point font. Thank you. - Forgot my IP address.