Talk:Troupes de marine

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This is not directly related to the article, but I wonder if somebody knows how the Troupes de Marine stack up against the USMC? Of the four main branches in the US military, the Marines are known to be the toughest, and "tough" is the word most Americans associate with the USMC. So I wonder if the Troupes de Marine are the "toughest" major branch of the French military and how they stack up in that same category against the USMC? Anybody?

Wonder what's the point of these kind of comparisons, anyway, the toughest unit in the French armed forces is certainly by far the Foreign Legion who really are in a league of their own. As for the Troupes de Marine (TDM), they are not really a major branch, but one of the speciality (like cavalry, infantry, artillery, ...) within the French army. As one of the first corps of French army to become fully professional (was semi-professional during the draft, but in large with professionals) it can be considered as one of the toughest wihtout belittling other units, and mainly because TDM are part of the spearheads of French army.

[edit] Ain't Marines

Fellow Troopers:

The Troupes de Marine are NOT Marines in the RM or USMC sense.

The REAL French Marines are the Fusiliers Marines, part of the French Navy. They wear naval uniforms and use naval ranks.

Sorry to disagree on that, as Marines are troops specialised in overseas operations, which is the role of the Troupes de Marine within French armed forces, whereas Fusiliers marins' main function is to protect French naval bases; the Commandos on the other hand are French equivalent of British SBS or US Navy seals. It is not because the fusiliers marins, wear naval uniforms and are part of the navy that they are marines, anyway USMC is not part of the US Navy either. But to be fair, fusiliers marins and troupes de marine were from 1622 (compagnies ordinaires de la mer) to 1856 the same unit, and were separated with the fusiliers marins for protecting naval bases and troupes de marine (troupes coloniales) for oversea operations. In addition, troupes de marine were for a long time under the supervision of ministry of sea before being transfered to the ministry of defense. --Blastwizard 12:28, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Help

I thought that there were three separate things: Colonial Troops (other than the Senegalese or Algerian troops, which were always Army) which were moved about by the Navy, but did not storm beaches; Marine Infantry ("Fantassins marins," nicknamed "Marsouins"); and Marine Artillery ("artillerie marin," or so, nicknamed "Bigors"). The last two are indeed equivalent to what became the Royal Marines and the USMC. But in France, they have been subsumed under the Army, not hanging around the Navy. What is the author of this piece doing by confusing this with the descendants of the Colonial Troop forces? I can't figure it out. Further, there are specialized commando units, too. This is difficult to sort out by web sources in English or simple French (i.e., not an on-line volume of military history). --Sobolewski 23:46, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Troupes de Marine are the same thing as Troupes Coloniales, just having been renamed, Zouaves and Tirailleurs were therefore part of it. Often, marsouins and bigors refer to the troupes de marine as "la coloniale", and most of the traditions of troupes de marine are indeed inherited from colonial traditions. I understand your confusion, but initialy, in the very olden days it was troops serving onboard ships, but were later transformed into troops who were specialised in combat on land and just travelling on ships, at that point a lot of people from the French colonies were enrolled in the troupes coloniales. --Blastwizard 12:28, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

The USMC is an entity with air,naval and ground force, TDM are not so separated from the Ground Force. If you want to compare the organization, you will compare USMC with the Gendarmerie Nationale which have sea, air and land competance but for police operation (so they aren't like the USMC on this point).

The comparison is at the level of its role within French armed forces not at the organisational point of view. As you pointed out, TDM are part of the French army like the Royal Marines are part of the Royal Navy and in that regard they differ from the USMC but they serve the same purpose. Blastwizard 14:10, 6 July 2006 (UTC)