Talk:Troll (Middle-earth)

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What cannibalistic habbits do they have? Mark Richards 23:17, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I would presume they at least eat eachother. That's one of the more important cannibalistic habbits. --Corvun 09:43, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I doubt it is said anywhere in Tolkien's literature that Trolls eat each others. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would like a reference. --Earendel 11:36, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mockery of Ents?

If Tolkien said that his "Trolls" were made in mockery of the Ents, even though the text says very little on this topic, what could be concluded from that?

"Ent" is Middle-English, an alternate version of the word "Ettin", which derives from the Old English "Eotann", from the Norse "Yotunn". This being the case, the word "Ent" could basically be described as a Middle-English term for the Titan-like beings of Norse Myth, the "Yotunnar", or Jotuns. By the time Middle-English came round, the Giants of Norse Mythology had already (presumably) been somewhat demonized, and myths concerning Trolls changed from small, troublesome, humanoid creatures to massive, powerful, humanoid beasts. "Ent" in Middle-English was also used as a synonym for a giant or troll.

It seems that in actual folklore/myth, the trolls actually did at some late point become more-or-less mockeries of the "Ents" (Jotuns).

Meseems this was meant as a fairly obvious "in-joke" Tolkien placed to test the learnedness of his audience. At the very least, Tolkien must have known (likely to his own personal amusement) that his trolls being made in mockery of his ents mirrored trends in actual myth/folklore. I'd think it pretty unlikely that it was mere coincidence.

Has this angle been explored by any "Tolkien-experts"? Is there any popular opinion concerning this and the number of other possible "in-jokes"? --Corvun 09:41, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I am not knowledgeable in English etymology, but if what Corvun says about the word "Ent" is true (and I have no reason to disbelieve him), it's likely that Tolkien used the term intentionally for this purpose. You can find other "in-jokes" related to the language in Tolkien's work. Unfortunately, I don't remember precise references. I only know you can find some in Ardalambion. --Earendel 11:37, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

In early outlines for the LOTR there was supposed to be an encounter with an Ent (=Giant) after Lórien. Clearly at this point Tolkien had no idea yet of the Shepherd of the Trees: he had earlier used the term in the "Ettinmoors" north of Rivendell, where certainly there were no Elfs, but rather Trolls!

So yes, the in-joke certainly stands, as the professor was quite aware of the term and its applied meanings. -- Jordi·✆ 07:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Types of Trolls

References or quotations from Tolkien's literature would be highly appreciated (i.e., where each type of troll is mentionned). As far as I am concerned, I would like to know where the river trolls are mentioned. --Earendel 11:36, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I think the correct reading is "river-tolls". The river troll entry should be deleted. --Krunkers 1:25, 9 November 2006