Talk:Tribadism

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Contents 1 Greek source for the word "tribadism" 2 monkey bumpin' 3 train spotting? 4 Velcro 5 Possible copyvio 6 Useless Tripe 7 minor edit 8 Is this position actually pleasurable? 9 first picture 10 Anonymous comment 11 Content 12 explanation for blanking redundancy 13 Spain?

[edit] Greek source for the word "tribadism"

I've been thinking, in the article it says that "tribadism" derives from the Greek "tribo" which is "to rub". As I understand it, though, there is no reason for any rubbing to be associated with tribadism in Ancient Greece, as "tribadism" was used in to indicate women who wore strap-ons. I also doubt that the ancient greek word for "to rub" is "tribo" ("tribo" does have that meaning in modern greek, but modern greek is quite different from ancient greek), even though I could be wrong. In any case, I think there is another possibility we might have missed: "tribadism" can also mean "walking with three legs" (from "tria" which means "three" and "badin" which means "to walk"). Wouldn't that make more sense? The third leg could be the strap-on. Any thoughts? 87.203.109.78 23:24, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

First of all there definitely is a verb τρίβω in Ancient. Greek[1] It does seem like a strange etymology for τριβάς, and I'm not sure I believe it, but it's the only one I've ever seen. Well, other than yours. I'm sorry to say, but yours seems a bit far-fetched. Also, I'm pretty sure that if you were correct, the paradigm would be *τρίβας *τρίβαντος, rather than the attested τριβάς, τριβάδος. --Iustinus 00:36, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I just stumbled on this page. Very interesting. If Tertullian really refers to tribades as frictrices then the association with τρίβειν must have already been current by his time! --Iustinus 00:40, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you mention "τρίβας" as it is a different word from "τριβαδισμός" (or, in english, "tribadism"). First means "one who walks with three legs" and the other "walking on three legs", and I'm pretty sure that the latter is correct (let's see it another way: how else would you say "walking on three legs" in ancient greek?). Anyway, since the article doesn't mention any source as to the word "tribadism" deriving from "tribo" I think that we should at least put a "citation needed" tag on it, right? Cause I honestly can't see "tribadism" deriving from "tribo". But then again, ancient greek is full of many absurd exceptions, so I'm not really sure. 87.203.109.78 05:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Um... let's see if I can answer your points one by one:

• I'm not sure why you mention "τρίβας" as it is a different word from "τριβαδισμός" (or, in english, "tribadism").

Because τριβαδισμός "tribadism" is almost certainly derived from τριβάς (note accent!) "tribade," and not the other way around. This seems like common sense to me, but if you need further evidence, note that the word τριβάς is attested in Classical Greek, whereas τριβαδισμός is not (according to the L&S Dictionary, and the TLG)—it is not unlikely that the ancients used that word, but it never shows up in ancient texts (admittedly τριβάς itself is fairly rare). Even were that not the case, I don't see what's odd about mentioning τριβάς: they are only different words in the sense that "lesbian" and "lesbianism" are in English. That doesn't make the one irrelevant to the other.

• First means "one who walks with three legs" and the other "walking on three legs", and I'm pretty sure that the latter is correct (let's see it another way: how else would you say "walking on three legs" in ancient greek?).

Well... I guess τρισί ποσίν πατοῦσα? Heck, maybe even just τρίπους, like in the riddle of the sphinx (which Apollodorus gives as " τί ἐστιν ὃ μίαν ἔχον φωνὴν τετράπουν καὶ δίπουν καὶ τρίπουν γίνεται;")? I would gloss *τρίβας as meaning "tripple-goer" or something like that, but note that even if we accept your gloss, and explanation of the semantic shift to "sexually penetrative female," there are still problems. I'm assuming that the roots you're using here are τρι- "three" and -βας "going" (which is of course the aorist participle of βαίνω). But the forms don't match up:

1. Why is the genitive of τριβάς not *τρίβαντος but τριβάδος?
2. Given that this word would formally be a participle, and it is grammatically feminine, why is the form not *τριβᾶσα? Remember, the fact that a tribade has a phallus does not change the grammatical gender of the word.
3. Why is it accented on the last syllable, τριβάς, and not on the first, τρίβας (cf. διάβας)? (Obviously this one rests on the shakiest ground, given the history of accentuation)

I suppose you could be instead deriving τριβαδισμός from *τρι-βαδίζω, but then you still have to explain why the attested agent form is τριβάς and not *τριβαδίσᾱσα or something.

So in all, it is much easier to say that the derivation is τριβ- plus -άς as in μονάς "monad, unity, unit." If we want to quibble with this one, there are some obscure glossa in Hesychius like βαδάς "pathic", or βάδομαι which means "love" in the Aeolic (and hence Lesbian) Greek.

• Anyway, since the article doesn't mention any source as to the word "tribadism" deriving from "tribo" I think that we should at least put a "citation needed" tag on it, right?

Fair enough. Go ahead and add that tag. I'll see what I can do about sources. Remember, I don't necessarily believe that the etymology makes sense, but it's the only one I've ever seen seriously suggested. Furthermore, given that Tertullian translates the word as frictrix "rubber," clearly the derivation from τρίβω, right or wrong, was accepted by the ancients. --Iustinus 01:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Neither τριβαδισμός nor τρι-βαδίζω were actual words in Ancient Greek, or at least they are not attested, according to LSJ. Therefore it is incorrect to say, "Originally ancient Greeks used the term "tribadism" (τριβαδισμός) with a different meaning," since they didn't actually use the term with any meaning at all, as far as we know. τριβάς from τρίβω seems quite logical to me. What exactly sounds "unlikely" or "strange" about it? If tribadism is a pseudogreek term from English, when did it appear? Also, the reference to heterosexual "pegging" probably is irrelevant in this etymology. Is there an actual reference to an ancient author using the term τριβάς this way? If not, this section is extremely misleading. How about _pathikos_ as someone who gets pegged by women? Any classical reference here? Greeks weren't shy about talking about this stuff, so if there are any references, they shouldn't be hard to find. It sounds a bit as if some feminist is trying to impose this parallel between pathics and tribades on the etymology. What we need here are some sources. Ocanter 12:06, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] monkey bumpin'

I have not only heard these terms plenty of times, I have seen film footage of it, accompanied by 2 out of the three terms being used. They are in regular use. I will admit I havn't heard the donut bumpin' one, but then I never heard of Tribadism either, before reading the article. In fact I question it's placement as the article title. Monkey bumpin seems a reasonable option. Perhaps we should review google hits. Sam Spade 20:16, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

an example of "donut bumping" being used Sam Spade 20:26, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

Doesn't bumping uglies refer to sexual friction between the genitals of two people, without regard to gender? I have certainly heard it used for penivaginal sex. Shorne 06:58, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

sure, but how about Monkey bumpin as the article title? Sam [Spade] 11:36, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Why not merge this with Frotteurism? cution 03:14, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Well, it would seem to have different implications. To quote that article, "Frotteurism carries a connotation of "anonymous and discreet rubbing" in a public place—like on a crowded train." --FOo 06:12, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] train spotting?

maybe I'm just naive, but... why is it called "train spotting"? --Smooth Henry 03:41, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

• I second the question! Tualha (Talk) 12:13, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

I've a really, really dirty mind, and I'm still drawing a blank.

Maybe given that this could be vandalism we should take it out. Trainspotting at the very least reffers to a number of unrelated things, so it would be hard to determine if it reffers to tribadism at all. Lotusduck 16:40, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

• Remember one term may relate to multiple definitions. Unless there is a redirect from the 'trainspotting' page, I would suggest leaving the term up until proven otherwise. Donwilson 04:41, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Velcro

I heard many people refering to this sexual practice as "Velcro". I understand this is a coloquial (and probably vulgar) way to reffer to it (well, the whole conception can be perceived as vulgar anyway depending on how open-minded one is). Anyway, perhaps is worth mentioning. --Pinnecco 15:09, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

This article is already a list of terms for the act (which seems to be fiarly well described!). It looks like all that is really known about tribadism is the vulgar terms for it! I'm not sure its useful to enumerate terms ad nauseum...but if so may I suggest a list? An An 22:41, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Possible copyvio

According to this page, this text comes from Webster's. I looked and was told it was in the unabridged, which requires subscription. If anyone has a subscription, would you please check? Thanks, Tualha (Talk) 12:22, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

"Webster's" isn't a specific work; it's a generic term for any published English dictionary. I doubt that any of the well-known dictionaries using that name include the phrase "donut bumping". So I suggest that the page you link to above didn't copy its text from any "Webster's" ... but rather from Wikipedia, from this very article. --FOo 17:25, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

I suppose that makes sense. I would never use language so imprecisely and I forget that other people do. Thanks, Tualha (Talk) 09:42, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

• Webster's is a specific dictionary (in many printings, editions, etc.) and I guess that person forgot to specify which one. Anyone calling ANY American dictionary a 'Webster' is I'm guessing not American and at the very least not very into dictionaries/being specific.

[edit] Useless Tripe

There's some tripe in this article. If it were possible, I would be inclined to think this article should resolve to a more common name for the act, for starters. The current one may have its roots in history, and such roots should surely be given their due in the article on the act, but I'm inclined to think that the whole diggerydo could do better. The useless tripe re: bands whose names reference the act surely must be given it's due, but I would throw a dollar in the tip cup of any effort that put that mention off to the side in some significant way. Mention, perhaps, but mention in the primary blurb-of-words? I dunno about that. -Ozzyslovechild 04:40, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't agree with moving it. Is there any other name for it, that is acceptable in American, Canadian, British, South African, Australian, and Indian forms of English? The article offers three different colloquial terms, leading me to wonder whether there's a dominant term even in just the US. Even if there is, is it going to be well known in a decade? English, unlike French, has no middle register between clinical (tribadism) and slang (scissoring) for sex, but given those choices, for an encyclopedia, especially an international encyclopedia, I'd go for the clinical. Making redirects from the slang names might be a good idea, though. --Prosfilaes 06:40, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Or that. Indeed. -:)Ozzyslovechild 03:27, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] minor edit

minor edit - - tribadism appears in most medium and large size Webster dictionaries (Fourth College 2000 for sure) so I removed the (all?) part from the opening section.

[edit] Is this position actually pleasurable?

...

Yeah, I'm just wondering. Eztli 06:01, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

If it wasn't, it wouldn't be done, so I guess it must be pleasurable for at least some women

an old girlfriend used to have sex with one of her girlfriends this way. my girlfriend wasn't into it much herself, but her female partner preferred it.

Look at the girl in the drawing. She's obviously enjoying herself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.112.100.91 (talk • contribs).

• As we all know, pictures always accurately describe said emotional states. Donwilson 04:43, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] first picture

I'm taking out the first picture, because it's exactly the same as the second, just harder to see. Lotusduck 16:41, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anonymous comment

The following comment was originally inserted directly into the article by LakisD

A different opinion by a Greek here : Trib (tribadism) comes from the ancient Greek verb "tribo" (τρίβω) which means "to rub". Tribadism was the way for two women to make love rubbing their genitals together. There were not dildos or strap on dildos in Ancient Greece. The women who prefered to make love that way were called tribades.

Something more : Tribadism is the most common way (but not the only one) for two women to have a sexfight (see sexfight). That's why sexfight sometimes it is called "competitive trib". That's why sexfight is also called "p2p fight" or "pfight" where "p" is the known word which is used for a woman's genitals.

See: http://www.tribgirls.com/ 68.112.218.188 20:05, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I cannot speak to the sexfighting information, though it might be worth mentioning in the article.

But I can speak to dildos. The ancient Greeks definitely had them. Aristophanes refers to them repeatedly, both by their proper Ancient Greek name (ὄλισβος), and by euphemisms. The term τρίβας does not show up until the first century AD, which is much later than most people mean when they say "Ancient Greece", but it certainly qualifies as ancient. --Iustinus 03:59, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Anonymous, you removed your IP address from this section. But we need some way to identify you, so if you don't want us to use your IP address, please create an account. If you are concerned about your privacy (and this seems to me like the only reason y ou would remove your IP from this page), please keep in mind that any edit you make anonymously is automatically logged on the history page with your IP address anyway. If you get an account, it will actually protect your anonymity more. --Iustinus 00:05, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Now i have an account (LakisD). Sorry i did not know how things work here. Is it possible to remove my IP address now ? Thanks.

I have changed your IP address to your new user ID on this page. To my knowledge, there is no way to remove your IP address from the history pages / change logs, or from older editions of this page. Sorry.

By the way, when you post a comment to a talk page, you can "sign" it automatically by typing --~~~~ at the end of your comment. This will automatically show up as your user name and the date and time, and most Wikipedians will insist that you do this when leaving a comment. Of course you shoudl only do this on talk pages, and other pages designated for discussion. In articles, you should never sign.

Welcome to Wikipedia. I hope you have a good time! --Iustinus 17:35, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Content

I just noticed that this page doesn't have any actual content in it. There's a bare introduction, a large section on linguistics and a short section on bonobos. Can anyone add some information about the humans actually doing this? --Strait 23:41, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

great minds think alike... Mathmo ^Talk 03:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Why don't we just copy & paste the Bonobo section, but then replace the word "Bonobo" with "Human" in all instances. I mean, how different are we from Bonobos? I think that might work. --Kevin 04:20, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

This is indeed one of the most unintentionally hilarious articles on Wikipedia. I added the long etymology because so many people were tossing around ridiculous ideas about the word's derivation, and trying to make deductions about sexuality in different cultures based on their folk etymologies. I admit that it dominates the article, but in this case, I think that's OK. I came to the page looking for a definition and etymology for the word, so I assume that some other people are going to be looking for the same thing. As for the lack of "actual content," I think that's OK too, at least in this particular article, because the actual act is so self-explanatory. For that, the picture of two ladies going at it suffices. It's interesting, though, that in the picture at the top of the page, the two ladies are obviously not rubbing their vulvas together directly. Each is rubbing her vulva on the butt and thigh of the other. I'm sure that is also a ton of fun, but the caption is then inconsistent with our definition. Personally, I think the other sections need a lot of work, but I limited myself to the etymology because that is what I know. Ocanter 18:03, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's quite as self-explanatory as you make it out to be. In the same way, the page on oral sex could just say "it is when one person puts their mouth on another person's genitals". It should also include, y'know, what percentage of lesbians practice it, its health risks/benefits, how it is perceived culturally, and so forth. --Strait 19:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

i think the bonobo info is out of place, and it feels sort of insulting to the intimate sexual position that two women can share. there should at least be way more content on the act as it occurs between humans.71.232.108.228 07:45, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] explanation for blanking redundancy

I eliminated "possibly to stimulate each other's clitoris to orgasm" from the header. This caused some confusion as to why, and it was immediately reverted.

I did this because it was misleading, biased, and did not belong in the header.

It was misleading because it implied that the clitoris is the only stimulated part, that we don't know why they do it, but 'maybe they're trying to stimulate each other's clitoris to orgasm, gee I don't know,' and that the only point of doing it is to achieve orgasm, but we're really not sure, maybe they do it because they are bored.

It actually made sense before somebody inserted "probably" into the sentence. Even then it was biased and misleading, because it implied that stimulation of the clitoris to orgasm is the only purpose of doing this, that clitoral orgasm is always achieved by doing this, that getting the clit off is the whole point, etc. Such statements would make a good start for a heading on the act itself, which, as some have pointed out, is missing from the article. They don't belong in the header, though, because they imply too much questionable interpretation. My $.02.

It was redundant in that it is obvious that the two clits will come into contact, yet it was confusing in that we defined it as rubbing the whole vulvae together, and we even put up a picture of two girls doing it without putting their clitorises together. So it contradicted our initial definition and the graphic.

This article could be improved dramatically if some of the users, who seem to have interpretations of the purpose and pleasure of this act would develop a section on the act itself.

Ocanter 14:02, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spain?

Why on earth would Spain share a tortilla-based-slang-term for this with Central American countries? They don't eat tortillas in Spain any more than they do in Venezuela. Is there some way to check this? In the absence of a reference, can this factoid be deleted? Benami 01:41, 29 March 2007 (UTC)