Talk:Trial of Socrates
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There was no senate in Athens. You might be thinking of Rome. The Jury of Socrates, though, was 500, not 501. 280 found him guilty, 220 found him innocent, but if he had 30 more votes of innocent(a number which he harped upon in reference to the thirty tyrants), he would have been acquitted, because if there was a tie vote, the resolution (Socrates corrupts the youth and is not pious to the gods of Athens, which was the most important charge) would have failed for lack of sufficient guilty votes. Juries were randomly selected from the Athenian (male) citizens. The Assembly of Athens, which was the legislative body passed, debated, and amended all laws, as well as appointed generals and judged plays, among many other functions. Juries, though, varied in size. Some had only 30, others had more, but 500 was the biggest size that they could fit into one room, and this allowed for multiple trials to be conducted simultaneously.
...before a "jury" of 501 Athenian citizens--which constituted the Athenian Senate...
Are you sure of this? From everything I have read, Athenian juries were randomly selected from amidst the population, with legislation handled by the assembly. I do not see how the word senate really applies to them.
Not absolutely sure, but have a look at this: http://appliedphilosophy.mtsu.edu/intro_to_phil/PlatosApology.htm
Basically, I thought the legislative body of Athens (called the Senate) also simply had a judicial function. I think that's what I taught my students, but I might have taught them wrongly and I might have forgotten what I taught them. :-) Anyone else? --LMS
Hm. I don't know anything about the period specifically after the thirty tyrants, but the general statement that democracy was restored suggests that legislation was passed the same way - by the assembly of all free men, not by a senate. I'm not even sure what the Athenian senate would refer to, except possibly the areopagus, who had an extremely reduced function. Some double-checking confirms Socrates was tried before a randomly selected jury, so what I'm going to do is change the statement unless someone provides evidence to the contrary, and add a few more details as well.
The jury numbered 501, voting 281-220 in favour of conviction. -- Spock he was also a teacher who tought kids by asking questions and that is another reason he was put to death.
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- The number 501 is from Diogenes Laertius, who can often be unreliable, especially when he doesn't cite his source. There is no earlier account which gives the exact number of Socrates' jurors. We know that 500 was the size of a typical jury; but we also know that the number in some cases went as high as 2000. There was no problem in the case of a tie, because a tie meant acquittal. (Trials weren't always held in a room; they were sometimes held in the open air; so there was never a problem of fitting jurors into a room.) From Plato's Apology 36a, we know the ratio (but not the exact numbers) of jurors who voted for and against conviction.
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[edit] Adjective: Sokratean or Socratic?
Consider the Greek one, sokratikos, when deciding.
—6birc, 17:23, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Genitive: always Sokrates's, never Sokrates'
Reference: The Apostrophe Protection Society.
—6birc, 17:35, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
- ...except that it is in practice almost universally written as Sokrates', as are most classical names ending in s. Isokrates 20:32, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Free speech?
Since his execution? I doubt it. Free speech is a very recent concept. I'd have said he was revered for most of that time as an example of 1. logic 2. rationality 3. principle. Maybe free speech in the US in the last 200 years or so. But I'd like to see more here in the light of Stone's analylsis (Stone taught himself Greek in his retirement specificially to write his book) that Socrates was seriously anti-democratic, had failed to stand up to the tyrants (merely going home when ordered to execute a dissident) and never went into exile with all the real dissidents. Stone also argues that Socrates wanted to die, perhaps (like Alan Turing, perhaps) to explore the next world, or to avoid both the pains of old age and the impiety of suicide. --Hugh7 01:09, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] POV?
"It was, indeed, a dangerous time for a man such as Socrates." What exactly is this sentence doing here? It doesn't seem to be conveying any information at all except that the author sympathizes with Socrates and his position. 128.135.157.109 04:30, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Socrates was more than strictly intellectual; he had a religious side as well, along with ideas which would go on to be intergral to Christianity.
