Talk:Tove Jansson

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[edit] Orientation

It's clear that her partner is a woman from both the category "lesbian artists" and the fact that Tuulikki Pietilä inspired a female character in the Moomin books; but since the name isn't obviously female to a non Finnish reader there could be some confusion.

I know it doesn't really matter, but the article might as well state her sexual orientation clearly. --Starwed 06:33, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Good point, I'll try and track down a reference and then I'll add it. Might take me a few days though. Steve block talk 10:21, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree...I read this article and I was thinking, "life partner..." does that mean she was, really, romantically/sexually involved with this person Tuulikki? It's unclear from the article as it stands.--Zaorish 04:07, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sourcing

I forgot all about this, sorry, thanks for the prod, Zaorish. It's citable that she had a female lifelong companion, [1], [2], [3], [4], that they were girlfriends, [5], [6] and the British Film Institute describe her as a lesbian in this pdf press release [7]. I think there's enough sources there to support it. I would add it appears it was something of a secret, albeit perhaps an open one, in Finalnd: [8], but I can't cite a better source for that as yet.

• I think the way the article reads reflects the sources pretty well, if you ask me. Steve block talk 10:37, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The way it reads and why I'll change it just a bit

Steve, you're right that it's not a big deal, and that it's pretty clear as it stands. However, at least from my USA perspective, famous gay people have long been described in encyclopedias and history books, eupehmistically', as living with "companions" or "partners" or "romantic friends." (Even the woman who wrote one of our national anthems, Katharine Lee Bates.)

In the USA this has begun to change, only very recently, and historians have slowly begun to accept homosexuality for what it is. I hope you will see this not as USA bias, but rather increasing clarity, for American readers as well as other English speakers.

So I feel this article should be just a little more explicit. I will do this myself in a bit.--Zaorish 11:34, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

No, I fully appreciate that; in fact it seems to have happened with Jansson in Finland and elsewhere. That's what I meant when I stated that the article represents the sources; the sources are just as inexplicit as the article. It was extremely hard to find a source that explicitly described her as a lesbian. However, one was found and I'd support the article describing her as such. I just wish we had a better source for the fact that it was an open secret; that would be relevant, I can't think of any biographies of Jansson off the top if my head, but I will stay on the hunt. Steve block talk 11:58, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, ok, so the source is still unclear. I'm sorry, I was confused--you said that the article, as it exists faithfully reflects the ambiguity of the sources. In that case, then let's not jump to any conclusions. I will go do some googling myself. Thanks for your patience in discussing this edit!

Thinking for a moment now, I come suddenly to the realization the putting hard boundaries on certain peoples' homosexuality, especially for women, is also a somewhat recent development. When I look, I will keep an open mind for such ambiguities.--Zaorish 02:51, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Cool. Any help you need don't hesitate to ask. Sorry to have confused you. I'm not sure there's any ambiguity about her sexuality, there just isn't much to actually cite regarding it, so it doesn't seem wholly relevant. It's also worth noting there's a reliable source which talks of her being engaged in her early twenties, so would we then describe her as bisexual? I sort of take the view that sexuality is something of a fluid affair, or a sliding scale, and unles a person's sexuality is notable in its own right, I always ponder if it is therefore necessary to discuss it in great detail. I'm not convinced Jansson's sexuality is important to her work, as such, although I can see an argument in listing Jansson as a lesbian in categories and lists where such lists have encyclopedic value. However, YMMV, and that's cool. Steve block talk 09:38, 21 March 2006 (UTC)