Talk:Tourism in Uzbekistan

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Contents 1 Copyright violation = 2 Discussion about suggested changes 3 Ethics and human rights 4 Thank you for your advice. 5 POV tag 6 Hello, in fact English isn't my native language.

[edit] Copyright violation =

According to the last line of the article, this is a copyright violation.--Xyzzyplugh 14:55, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Agree that is copyright violation. I found images and text on these websites. I was adding tag, but someone else beat me to it. [1][2] FloNight ^talk 13:36, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I garantee that there is not any violation of copyright at this page. My name is Dmitriy A. Pitirimov I am the author of these photograps. Moreover all texts at this page are typed by me or taken from free sources of Uzbekistam media. If you have any question please address to me via e-mail psec@tkt.uz ----Dmitriy A. Pitirimov

© Copyright 2005 Dmitriy Page. All rights reserved. No images from PAGETOUR CD or website may be reproduced without prior written consent.

This copyright statement seems to indicate otherwise. I could be wrong, it's happened before : ) Other people are more expert. I will find someone else to answer your questions. FloNight ^talk 14:32, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

"Dmitriy Page" is my nickname. I made it when I started "Pagetour" my personal private collection. Check the home page of Camp4joy there is my real name at this page, I am the director of the camp and the author of almost all photographs from my sites. If you do not trust, fill any of the forms from my sites, add your e-mail and I will reply. Thank you for protection of my rights! Who will restore my links from other pages, I spent hours for this work? Kind regards ---Dmitriy A. Pitirimov

Dmitriy, thank you for your desire to contribute. However, even putting potential copyright problems aside, there are other issues with this article. First, the way it is written, it would fit much better in a tourist guide book rather than in the encyclopedia. You may wish to consider placing that text in WikiTravel—which is a different wiki aimed to serve primarily people looking for tourist information. This encyclopedia, however, is not a place for opinions and artistic descriptions; what we need is hard facts, preferrably referenced. Second, as far as linking to this article from other articles goes—the links should not be placed in every single article about Uzbekistan. While placing links in articles such as Uzbekistan and List of popular tourist regions is quite justified and acceptable, referencing it from Geography of Uzbekistan, Ulugh Beg, or Nasreddin is definitely not.

Returning to the copyright violation question—simply taking texts from free media is not always acceptable for our purposes. Texts may be in free access, but still be copyrighted. Unless you are absolutely sure that the texts/images are in public domain or licensed under GFDL, you should not quote them verbatim. If you are unsure, please read this and this first; those pages also have instructions on how to ask a question if you are still unsure about the source texts copyright status.

Hopefully this helps. I have reinstated the copyvio tag untill the matter is completely cleared.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 15:40, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Please! I took into consideration all advices and I try to correct my errors. Now all text and photos are mine! And I have changed the stile of article. What else? ---Dmitriy A. Pitirimov

I'm sorry, I was over-zealous with my revert. If you need any help with copy-editing please feel free to leave me a note on my talk page. Spook ^{(my talk | my contribs)} 10:11, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I've restored the article to the latest edit by Jabez; it doesn't seem to be a copyright violation anymore, although it has a POV problem. Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. // Pathoschild (_admin / ^talk) 10:13, 28 February 2006 (UTC):::: "Dmitriy Page" is my nickname. I made it when I started "Pagetour" my personal private collection. Check the home page of Camp4joy there is my real name at this page, I am the director of the camp and the author of almost all photographs from my sites. If you do not trust, fill any of the forms from my sites, add your e-mail and I will reply. Thank you for protection of my rights! Who will restore my links from other pages, I spent hours for this work? Kind regards ---Dmitriy A. Pitirimov

Dmitriy, thank you for your desire to contribute. However, even putting potential copyright problems aside, there are other issues with this article. First, the way it is written, it would fit much better in a tourist guide book rather than in the encyclopedia. You may wish to consider placing that text in WikiTravel—which is a different wiki aimed to serve primarily people looking for tourist information. This encyclopedia, however, is not a place for opinions and artistic descriptions; what we need is hard facts, preferrably referenced. Second, as far as linking to this article from other articles goes—the links should not be placed in every single article about Uzbekistan. While placing links in articles such as Uzbekistan and List of popular tourist regions is quite justified and acceptable, referencing it from Geography of Uzbekistan, Ulugh Beg, or Nasreddin is definitely not.

Returning to the copyright violation question—simply taking texts from free media is not always acceptable for our purposes. Texts may be in free access, but still be copyrighted. Unless you are absolutely sure that the texts/images are in public domain or licensed under GFDL, you should not quote them verbatim. If you are unsure, please read this and this first; those pages also have instructions on how to ask a question if you are still unsure about the source texts copyright status.

Hopefully this helps. I have reinstated the copyvio tag untill the matter is completely cleared.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 15:40, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Please! I took into consideration all advices and I try to correct my errors. Now all text and photos are mine! And I have changed the stile of article. What else? ---Dmitriy A. Pitirimov

I'm sorry, I was over-zealous with my revert. If you need any help with copy-editing please feel free to leave me a note on my talk page. Spook ^{(my talk | my contribs)} 10:11, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I've restored the article to the latest edit by Jabez; it doesn't seem to be a copyright violation anymore, although it has a POV problem. Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. // Pathoschild (_admin / ^talk) 10:13, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

What is POV? You mean Point of View? If it is so what you advice to be changed? I don't want to be blocked again. ----Dmitriy A. Pitirimov

Yes, POV stands for "Point of View". The goal of this encyclopedia is to write articles that ahdere to NPOV (which is "Neutral POV"). You can read all about NPOV here. Again, thank you for your contributions—please do not get discouraged with the feedback you received so far. People around here are generally pretty friendly and willing to help out, but copyright breaches and POV-pushing are always taken very seriously. You, of course, being new to Wikipedia, are in no way expected to know all the rules on your next day of being here, so don't worry about it too much yet. Wikipedia is a fascinating place once you get a grip of what's going on and by what rules the game is played. See you around!—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 13:36, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion about suggested changes

I will read the article and make suggestions here. FloNight ^talk 12:56, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Reading Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not might be helpful. It explains why some content is not encyclopedic. FloNight ^talk 13:00, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

• First suggestion The article needs an opening paragraph that describes the state of tourism in Uzbekistan. This needs to be fact based. Statistics about number of tourists, routes of transportation, and so on... FloNight ^talk 13:17, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ethics and human rights

In my opinion the last added text titled: Ethics and human rights is not relevant to the context of this page. It mostly bears the political assessment than discloses real situation at the country. More about my opinion you can read here UzbekistanDmitriy A. Pitirimov

Text in question The human rights record of Uzbekistan reflects its status as a nominal democracy that has frequently been described as a police state. Several prominent opponents of the government have fled, and among those who have remain, some have been arrested. The government severely represses those it suspects of Islamic extremism. Some 5,300 to 5,800 suspected extremists are incarcerated. (See main article, Human rights in Uzbekistan).

A very brief comment about human rights is appropriate but it should tie in with the topic better. FloNight ^talk 13:42, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm surprised that the (virtually unquestioned) fact that Uzbekistan is a police state could in any way be considered inappropriate. Most people in booking their holidays try to avoid countries with such poor human rights records.Vizjim 14:16, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I am not questioning the content or the importance of the text. This is one of the pitfalls of vacationing in Uzbekistan. The creator of the article is a new editor. I am trying to help him understand how to write an article that is WP:NPOV. Discussing this text that he questioned is a good opportunity to explain WP:NPOV. Also the wording of the text could tie in with the topic better. FloNight ^talk 14:37, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

True. I'll try a rewrite later on when I get more time.Vizjim 15:08, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Police state or no, it still has interesting stuff to see and do. --DanielCD 15:05, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

God, yeah, I agree - it looks stupendously beautiful (if not quite as lovely as Kyrgyzstan). Vizjim 15:08, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

The political variancies of a nation has little to do with whether it has tourist spots. The dangers, however, of any political unrest should likely be noted. Perhaps a glance to the US Dept. of State announcements in regards to travel there. --DanielCD 15:18, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Often, human rights organizations encourage tourists to boycott coutries with extreme human rights issues. Sometimes with an organized boycott. If something like that is happening, it could might be mentioned. FloNight ^talk 15:32, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I do not want to be unfriendly on to anyone on this page. Therefore as I was initiator of removing of the text concerning the Human rights in Uzbekistan, now I have try to recover it, edited from my POV. Inasmuch as this text is a product of joint creative work, I thank all who discussed the subject. And ... you are welcomed to edit it.Dmitriy A. Pitirimov

[edit] Thank you for your advice.

I just started to make the page, I will follow your suggestions, but let me understand the rules of the game. I really don't want to do something against them. I simply need the time to understand. Dmitriy A. Pitirimov

[edit] POV tag

Could someone give a clear statement of why the POV tag remains on this article? It seems to need cleanup more than de-POVing. --DanielCD 14:25, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Mostly needs copy edit. Not pov to the point it needs tag. Will remove. --FloNight 00:10, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello, in fact English isn't my native language.

Hello, in fact English isn't my native language. Therefore I possibly have made many mistakes. If you found some, please excuse me. If you want to help please edit this article. Your any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. ---- Jabez 10:34, 4 March 2006 (UTC)