Talk:Toph

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Toph is a character on Nickelodeon, so is within WikiProject Nickelodeon, an attempt to better organize articles about and mostly related to the Nickelodeon TV Channel.
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Archive #1

Contents

[edit] First Metalbender

Toph is not the first Metalbender. Watch the last episode again. When the Dai Li captures the Generals, you can see they're bending chains, with the metal sound effects as an added note. Though, yes this happens after Toph learns how to bend metal, I highly doubt the Dai Li somehow learned to bend metal in the span of one day. I believe they've known how to bend metal for a while now. Kulaguy 19:47, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

How do you know they're bending the metal? Did they say they were bending the metal? Did the metal freeze in the air or suddenly change direction with no outward force acting upon it? They're long chains and whatnot, the metal is never not connected to the Dai Li agents, it's just like a person controlling a lasso. JBK405 19:50, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

It seems like they were just using the metal and throwing it not bending it at all

1-11-07: I say they were just good at wielding chains and knew how to lasso. They would be great at rodeos. Don't kill me for saying that.So then Toph remains the first metal bender. Hooray!

They don't have to say they're bending metal. It's pretty obvious they're bending metal. They threw the metal, and bended it to hold the Generals. And what do you mean the metal is never connected to the Dai Li? IIRC, they hid it in their sleeves, and then threw it, and the end of the chains had a handcuff like appearance that cuffed the Generals. Kulaguy 20:48, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Website says she is the only one. Dai Li just threw them. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 20:58, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Mmhmm... Then go on a post a link to it. If the website says she's the only one, go on and post a link to it so I can verify it. Kulaguy 21:00, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Nick's site doesn't allow us to link to paticular pages. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 21:09, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
How convenient. Well then, just give me directions on which button to click on to get to the area where it says Toph is the only Metalbender. Kulaguy 21:25, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I can't find it right now, someone quoted it verbatim before and I had to change it. I have to get to work, I'll find it later. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 21:33, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I said they cuffs were never not connected, meaning the Dai Li were always holding on to one end of the chain. They don't need to bend the metal, just pull or push like any normal human being in order to move the cuffs. Like I said, it's just like using a lasso, you hold one end, move your hands and arms, and the other end does things like wrapping around other objects. Not everything in Avatar has to be related to Bending. JBK405 22:07, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

It sounds like he was weilding the chain like a Chain whip. See [1] & [2] for example.(Ghostexorcist 22:49, 2 December 2006 (UTC))

Not exactly the same, those videos were primarily swinging, whereas the Dai Li were pushing/pulling, but it's the same basic concept, it's a chain of metal with one end controlled by moving the other end. No bending needed. JBK405 23:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I know those videos don't show it up close, but one of the chain whip’s techniques is flinging it out and quickly pull it back. Usually, the whip is concealed in the hand, with the chains being held in a folded “zig-zag” pattern between the fingers. When it is thrown out, the target can be stung with the Chain whip's dagger end or entangle in the chained links. One common hiding area for the Chain whip was either in the hand or in the sleeve. Granted, the chains have cuffs on the end, but it sounds like the same principle.
I’m just trying to establish a possible origin for the technique they use since the show is heavily influenced by Chinese martial arts. This would be “skill” and not “bending”.(Ghostexorcist 23:38, 2 December 2006 (UTC))

Then yes, it's the exact same thing (What the Dai Li do is exactly what you just described, the chains are held within their sleeves, they fling their arms out, the chains extend outwards and the cuffs snag their prisoner, and they draw them back in). It looks like a pretty good candidate for the origin of this little doohicky (Although we can't say that in the article since we have no source). JBK405 23:43, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

THANK YOU! Finally, someone could prove me wrong, rather than just say "Oh, the website said it was bending but I can't link to where it says it right now." I respect people who can refute my points with evidence. Yeah, it's odd I'm so happy I lost this arguement. Kulaguy 01:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
a chain whip
a chain whip

No problem. Here is some further evidence. Here is a good pic of a Dai Li deploying his chain. Note the similarities between the linked bars of his cuffs with that of the Chain whip.

No metal bending at all, just a length of chain and LOTS of practice! Here is a better EXAMPLE of a Three Section Plum Flower Chain Whip. Notice the links are long and skinny like the chain used by the Dai Li.(Ghostexorcist 12:40, 3 December 2006 (UTC))

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Why in Toph profile said "don't put she's a metal bender"? [Unsigned]

Because Metalbending is just a subsection of Earthbending, not its own style. JBK405 00:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Metalbending would be its own style if the show adhered to the five Chinese elements of Earth, Fire, Wood, Water and Metal. But it only adheres to the Four elements, leaving metal out. (Ghostexorcist 00:53, 9 December 2006 (UTC))

Well yeah, it would, but then Airbending wouldn't be here, and there'd be Woodbending, too. JBK405 00:58, 9 December 2006 (UTC) ----------------------------------

Directions to the website statement that Toph is the only Earthbender capable of bending metal: http://www.nick.com/all_nick/tv_supersites/avatar2 After the load screen, click on the point of The Guru near the wall of Ba Sing Se on the world map, then Gear and More on the bar and then in the iron coffin201.37.28.3 20:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC) After first watching the episodes I instantly believed, after seeing the metal cuffs, that they were not thrown, or bended but launched with a mechanical mechanism of some sort. Just what I think. I will rewatch the episode to confirm this. One2ManyIOUs 20:33, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

One quick note. I was the one that added what family Toph's Southern Praying Mantis style is. I read it on shaolin.com. A kung fu website. It's Chu Gar Southern Praying Mantis Style. Just in case anyone was wondering. DJ168.212.126.128 15:34, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

This is also mentioned in an external link about Toph. What was the exact page on shaolin.com? Was it a forum? Forums are not to be trusted.(Ghostexorcist 10:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC))

There is no medal bending at all! The guru mentioned that metal is earth just refined. Toph felt the pieces of earth in the metal, and then bent that! There is no such thing as metal bending! And unless the Dai Li were blind and were blessed with the ability to feel vibrations in the earth they could not "bend metal!" (Whats a question? 00:16, 1 March 2007 (UTC)) 01:35, 26 january 2007 (UTC))

Ok we know that metal bending is not a style, its a subsection of earthbending. The same goes to sand benders who sand bend, Its just another section of earth bending. But can still be called sand bending and so can metal bending. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.57.40.107 (talk) 01:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

Point taken... Maybe the cuffs are made of earth, and they bent that! I still dont think anybody can bend metal! Just the earth in the metal! (Whats a question? 00:16, 1 March 2007 (UTC)) 01:54, 17 February 2007 (UTC))

Yeah...and nobody has said otherwise, as far as I know...--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 04:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Didn't anybody look at the examples I gave of the resemblance between the Dai Li's cuffs and the Chain whip? I thought this discussion was over with. The Dai Li are not bending a thing. A person with some training can make a chain whip shoot out and entangle an opponent (although the Dai Li have cuffs on the end instead of a blade). Since it has not yet been shown that the Dai Li can bend metal, it should be assumed that they are using martial arts skill and or a mechanical device to wield the chains and not bending. (Ghostexorcist 11:22, 17 February 2007 (UTC))
I think this claim has been thoroughly owned.  :) Qubeh 11:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

It's oubvious they use the metal cuffs so criminals cant earthbend them off. they can't bend metal. deal with it.

...Okay, I see Ghostexocist's point... Not about the boring, old chain-whip, but about a chain launching device straped to their arm hidden in their sleeves! Okay? Okay! =) (Whats a question? 04:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Rename article to "Bei Fong"?

Since it's undisputed now that she has a last name, should the article reflect that? --Crisu 15:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I think having Toph Bei Fong as a redirect is sufficient, since she's hardly ever addressed with the full name, and its normal practice to name articles by a short version of a name if the person is overwhelmingly known by the short version. For example, "William Jefferson Clinton" is a redirect to "Bill Clinton".--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 16:14, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The article states thats she has a last name because that's a sign of notability. And we all know that's her name, her family has been referred to as the Bei Fong family and even her mail read Toph Bei Fong.

Having Toph Bei Fong as a redirect and stated in the article is enough. Bagpipeturtle 01:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name Etymology

There seems to be some differences in opinion about the Trivia section mentioning possible meanings of Toph. First, I wonder if anyone else is of the opinion we should add a small section on name meanings to clear up the clutter in the trivia, since it'd take out 2 of the larger entries. Next, there seems to be some debate about whether or not there is need for citations and if meanings are pure speculation and thus don't belong here. I think the many possible meanings are interesting and important, but the interpretations could be cut for the sake of remaining more "factual." (As in, mention that "Toph may be a play on the word 'tough'" and leave it at that.) Is that needed or should they remain as is? Imbrii 17:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I've discovered there are many sites referencing "Toph" and "Tophet" in the Bible, most sites focusing on translation variations (tambourine/timbrel/drum are the usual meanings) but no site sticks out as a good one to use as a reference. Two more of the more dictionary-line ones. [3] [4] Anyone have opinions as to where would be best to use? Imbrii 17:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Admittedly I'm biased in that I find etymology interesting while others don't deem it important enough to keep on the page, but Toph's name ties into terms that fit so well I think it's worth keeping. I don't think it's useless fancruft. What are other people's opinions? I don't want to start an edit war or anything. Imbrii 04:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I think etymology is fine, provided that we can source things in it. Unless we hear direct from somebody, it will involve a little bit of speculation, but its acceptable in this context, I think.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 04:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dong

"In "City of Walls and Secrets," the names Katara and Toph used at the party were Kuā Měi (姱 美) for Katara and Dòng (侗) for Toph. Toph was not happy with hers because while Kuā Měi translates as 'fascinating beauty, Dòng means 'ignorant' or 'rustic.' "

I just wanted to note that Dong or Tong (侗) is also the first name of Zhou Tong (monk), the archery teacher of Song Dynasty general Yue Fei. That's not a very good first name for girl or guy!(Ghostexorcist 22:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Picture?

What happened to the picture that was here before? I thought we had agreed on that one. Momoroxmysoxoff 12:37, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

I liked the other photo better too. There is no need to have two pictures of her wearing a robe and her hair in a bun. (Ghostexorcist 20:04, 25 December 2006 (UTC))

What are you two talking about? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HeirToPendragon (talk • contribs) 01:36, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

  • We are talking about the picture of Toph with the so-called "creepy smile" on her face. I believe the screenshot was taken from one of her battles in Earth Rumble VI. (Ghostexorcist 12:11, 26 December 2006 (UTC))
I was wondering about this myself. The main picture on this page was changed from one in which Toph was in her standard clothing while slyling smiling, to this new picture of her in her robes with a creepy smile on (from Aang's vision). I'm not sure when the change occured, but apparantly the old picture file has been replaced completely, as the page history does not show the old picture ever existing... does anyone know where we can get a copy of the old one? –Prototime (talk • contribs) 06:44, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Ok now I'm completely lost, because the main picture I see is the one that's been there for a long time, the closeup on her face during Earth Rumble VI —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HeirToPendragon (talk • contribs) 02:23, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
That's really interesting; the picture I see as the current picture (and the one I assume everyone else in this discussion is seeing) is no longer the Earth Rumble VI picture; it has been changed to another picture of Toph that essentially looks like this (minus the AvatarSpirit.net info): http://screenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/206/120.jpg I'm currently looking for a clear version of the old photo that can be practically used for this page (the one located at http://screenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/206/155.jpg may work but it'll have to be edited up a bit). –Prototime (talk • contribs) 07:49, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Been wondering the same thing for a while. Hope you're able to change it back, the picture just seemed to reflect her character better. ~71.163.207.112

Brought it back. It was in the file revision history after all. --Crisu 03:23, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

It was changed agian. It's from the blind bandit, but different. If someone wants to change the picture, it really should be discused. So whoever is doing it, could you: a) not change it, or b) at least run it by everyone else.Momoroxmysoxoff 21:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

The picture that is there now needs changed, for a profile picture it doesn't work right (and it's copyright status is wrong). 24.165.122.145 05:48, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I've uploaded a brand new screenshot now (with some airbrushings) from "Bitter Work." Hopefully this is a much better shot of her face that everyone can agree on. --Crisu 19:48, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Someone changed it again! This one is similar to the posted by User:Crisu but this one is terrible (No offence to the person who posted it)! Could someone please change it the Earth Rumble 6, The Blind Bandit picture! (Whats a question? 00:18, 1 March 2007 (UTC)) 03:40, 18 February 2007 (UTC))

Ummm....as far as I can see the current shot has been there since early January.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 03:44, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

No, its different, trust me! It may look the same but someone changed it!!! (Whats a question? 00:18, 1 March 2007 (UTC)) 23:07, 18 February 2007 (UTC))

Ah, I see what happened here. User:DORCA uploaded a new image in place of the old one. I've reverted it.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 03:53, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] references?

isn't anyone EVER going to add some?Tremewanbill 00:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

If you've seen the show, you don't really need references unless it's something that hasn't really been released to the public. Qubeh 11:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
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