Talk:Top-up fees

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Needs cleanup and NPOV ;Bear 15:10, 2004 Apr 6 (UTC)

Somebody did it about a minute after I posted this -- that's really 'wikiwiki' fast ;Bear 15:08, 2004 Apr 7 (UTC)

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81.174.247.96, I'm not sure that your edit is exactly correct. I have Scottish friends who studied in England, with me, and did have to pay the £1000 tuition fees, means-tested. Had they studied in Scotland these would have been waived in exchange for a £2000 graduate 'endowment' repayable over time. Thus the word "continue" to pay no fees is not quite right.

I'm struggling to work out what the new regime is: will Scottish students have to pay English fees if they study in England? What is the grad. endowment now going to be if they studfy in Scotland? What fees will English students studying in Scotland face?

-Splash 15:25, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

I reverted that edit because it was just plain wrong. But now that I look around this article, it seems like a lot is wrong. Basically, in Scotland top up fees don't exist. The Westminster legislation doesn't cover Scotland at all. Since (2001?) tuition is set at £1000 whatever, but is paid for by Student Awards Agency for Scotland for students UK domiciled in Scotland, and EU (excluding the rest of Britain) students. So a Northern Irish students pays, a student from the Republic doesn't. Strange situation, I know. There is a proposal to increase the fee level, in particular for medicine, but it won't change the above situation, merely increase the money involved. I don't think there are any solid proposals to change the graduate endowment, although Nicol Stephen wants to. Whether he will or can when he wins the Lib Dem leadership is another matter...

As for Scottish students elsewhere... the fact that they're Scottish matters nothing. They will pay the same fees as everybody else. The Scottish Executive cannot legally pay their fees.

Anyone want to disagree with me on this? If not, I'll change the relevant bits of the article soon. Maccoinnich 16:04, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

Sounds right. Worth mentioning the graduate endowment and how that will/not change in 2006? - Splash 16:20, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

Mmm, perhaps. But given that this is the top up fees article, it's perhaps not such a good idea to get into the details of funding in Scotland? Maccoinnich 15:33, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, maybe you're right. But I think some (parenthetical) mention is worthwhile since the grad endowment is effectively the manifestation of tuition fees in Scotland (though granted not strictly the new 'top-up' fees). Plus, there is a section on "how it will work" so leaving it out altogether might leave it a little incomplete. While I'm here, I rather think this article needs a redirect (or something) to one called "Variable tuition fees (UK)" or somesuch, seeing as the new fees are not 'top-up' in either name or operation, even though they are often called such. I don't have Admin status, however. -Splash 15:55, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Strikes

Perhaps we should mention the fact that lecturers all over Britain are refusing to mark their students' work, including third-year dissertations? They're striking because their employers won't offer them a sorely-deserved pay rise, even though the money rolling in from next year from the top-up fees will increase every University's income by at least £3,000 per student. Or at least mention it somewhere...I can't find it on Wiki. Lady BlahDeBlah 17:55, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV issue

This article currently lacks balance and is too weighted towards criticizing top-up fees. Even the "Arguments for and against" section comes across as stating the government's position (or straw man arguments such as the supposed "I don't want to pay tax so other people will be better off" view, so presenting fees supporters as ignorant/selfish) and then proceeding to knock these down, sometimes using simplified or exaggerated terms e.g. only "rich" people will be able to afford university. Article needs a more balanced, sourced and serious-minded discussion Bwithh 19:26, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Courses

Are fees the same for each course within a given institution or do they vary between departments? e.g. are an English student and a Mechanical Engineering student at the same university going to pay the same fees? this hasn't been made clear. --Black Butterfly 14:17, 25 October 2006 (UTC)