User talk:Tony Sidaway/Archive 2005 04 22

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Template:User Tony Sidaway/User

Archive: Interim • 10/25 • 10/14 • 09/24 • 09/21 • 09/18 • 09/16 • 09/05 • 08/23 • 08/15 • 08/01 • 07/27 • 07/22 • 07/19 • 07/15 • 07/06 • 07/01 • 06/25 • 06/18 • 06/15 • 06/14 • 06/07 • 06/03 • 05/30 • 05/25 • 05/20 • 05/10 • 04/08 • 03/15 • 02/13 • 02/02 • 01/27 • 01/19 • 01/06 • 2006 • 2005 • 2004  edit

Contents

[edit] WP:DAO

On the advice of some of the arbcom, I've created a counterpart to the AMA, linked to above. You may be inclined to join. If so, feel free to declare yourself a senior partner. Snowspinner 05:27, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Coolcat

I am normaly nice to newbies but the way Fadix does things just challenges ones nerves as I have been constantly accused of a hidden agenda and bias. Now I admit I have views regarding some matters but I believe I can significantly purge my views and stick to neutrality, at least I try. For Fadix case he declares my views are biased and he is neutral, he is trying to provide one sided story to the article, I dont sincerely believe he is intentionaly annoying me. I did overeact as well, thats why I had the surveys sent to several mods I trust.

Can you also fix my newbie greet thing? I tried to put something together but seems like its offensive somehow? You are welcome to edit my user page :)

Ataturk had ideas that basicaly changed a nation completely. Turkey is a democracy and is very diferent from other middle eastern states.

Ottoman Empier after the initial "powerfull" years, was ruled by religion, The King(shah) was almost obligated to ask religious advisers if the course of action he wants to take conflicts with religion or not. The goverment juggled around religion. Scientists who came up with briliant ideas were often executed here and there. Also Shehs who were "holy" people, basicaly abusing religion like priests before Ronesanse & Reforms in Christianity. So religion was a big commerse, Ataturk attemted to destroy this industry, he didn succeed, he didnt fail either, such groups operate discreately most of the time. Popular groups are known and they operate pretty much above the law discreately, in a way cops cant prove but a way people just KNOW. Members of such organisations/groups hate the man. They use any opertunity to ridicule/propogate the man/their views.
He also prompted things like Equality and Nationalism rather than "Muslim Brothers" of the Ottoman empier the system was now more or less, "long live Turkish people!" and all the good stuff. Also stuff like woman voters were eastablished the year after the decleration of independence. He changed the alphabet from arabic to Latin. There isnt much he didnt touch.
This made a lot of people profiting by abusing other people's beliefs, lack of literacy, etnicity, very unhappy. The ideologies left over at the time still live today to some extent making the Ataturk Article very vanruble to attack. Simmilar to the articles Kurdistan, Kurds, Armenian Genocide, Kurdistan Workers Party. These articles are of significant importance to the Internal politics of Turkey and are a candidate for anti Turkey propoganda. While Neutrality is the most important way of doing things, some people will take it for biased as it does not voice their views "enough", as it should not. You know the kind.

--Cool Cat My Talk 08:30, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Harmonious Editing Club

Thanks Tony, I'll take a look at it. Thank you very much to you, too, for your vote, though if you read my note to David, you'll see that I intend to do the thanking all at once at the end, which is tomorrow. It's been a long week! I liked your stress-tested comment. ;-) SlimVirgin 16:30, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Charles Sheeler

Could you help me with the Sheeler article? I just visited the Georgia O'Keefe Museum in Santa Fe, New Mexico and I was interested- though not astonished- by his photography.

My names Matt Cavanaugh, I'm a student at Miami University --

http://netapps.muohio.edu/directory/?searchstring=Matt%20Cavanaugh

[edit] Thank you!

Okay, so here is the formal thank you. ;-) Thanks for the support and the congrats, which I appreciate very much. Now I have to learn how to use all the new buttons that have suddenly appeared, and also be careful not to click on them accidentally! Best, SlimVirgin 03:44, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nagorno-Karabakh

Be advised, I'll be working on mediating the people. Since you were involved in the revert war I thought you'd want to know. --Cool Cat My Talk 08:11, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Christmas

You're most welcome. Best wishes to you and yours! --RoyBoy 02:59, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC) (PS: Moving answers from my talk, to the proper page... sorry! :'D)

[edit] User:Gumba gumba

Hello,

If I'm not mistaken, the procedure should be to:

  1. Block Gumba gumba indefinitely (all edits vandalism)
  2. Watch Special:Ipblocklist and wait for an "autoblocked because you share an IP with Gumba gumba" to appear
  3. Unblock that numbered IP address (eg, #NNNNN).

That way Gumba gumba stays blocked, but the IP can still be used.

At least, that's the way I believe it works. -- Curps 21:42, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)


I'm as mystified as you are as to why it's been necessary to re-unblock the #NNNNN IP address so many times. It's only supposed to be necessary once. Something to do with the extreme slowness of Wikipedia at the moment? -- Curps 22:12, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

OK, what can we do but lift the block. I posted a request at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard for someone to look into this. I'd really like to know why it isn't possible to just block a username without blocking the IP, without all this nonsense. In many ways, the Mediawiki software is a load of crap (don't get me started about duplicated sections of articles). I have to step away from the computer now, talk to you later. -- Curps 22:36, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I love to see my name in print! Keep it up- Gumba Gumba

[edit] Elastigirl section of The Incredibles

Thanks for trimming down the Elastigirl stuff - I have no problem with a small mention like what you created. DenisMoskowitz 22:12, 2005 Mar 24 (UTC)

[edit] Confession

Father, I have sinned, for I have had evil thoughts about a fellow Wikipedia user. When you added the office of "Witchsmeller Poursuivant", I immediately thought of exactly whom I would nominate for that position. But I shall not say the name, lest it be deemed a personal attack - I just wanted to come and confess my sinful thoughts to you. Prescribe what penance you will, and I will seek absolution. And by the way, I wanted to say what a fine (and persuasive) signature you have. --Michael Snow 23:37, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

No, I'm not going to say, that would just gratify confessional voyeurism. (More precisely, I fear the person involved might misunderstand the joke.) --Michael Snow 23:47, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Read the rules

I've read the wikirules and agree to abide by them. J. Parker Stone 04:28, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Welcome back. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 13:31, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Viscount of Santarem's world atlas

Hi! You created a redirect from Viscount of Santarem's world atlas to Atlas do Visconde de Santarém, which currently does not exist. Try as I may, I couldn't find any related article on Google, and nobody's pointing to the redirect. This looks like RfD material, but I wanted to ask your opinion first. Fbriere 06:48, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] VFD for RDFA/Snowspinner

I have edited your most recent comment on this to read RFC rather than RFD - I presume you weren't talking about converting the VfD debate into a Redirects for Deletion debate. Feel free to revert if I'm wrong. Thryduulf 15:14, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ranking

You git it all wrong. Ranking is how likely someone will change my mind. I thought you were an admin... I did not want to offend you in any way. --Cool Cat My Talk 06:24, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Idea was to promote contribution by merit, like Barnstars. With improvement may be usefull. --Cool Cat My Talk 06:29, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nagorno-Karabakh

The reason I aproached the artile like this is because the discussion itself was vandalised, I just wanted to make sure nothing was lost during the intese reverting... --Cool Cat My Talk 07:13, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vote for deletion on Artike Bongsha

Hello Tony, Seeing as you don't know the bongsha I explain to you. Bongsha is an trend around various areas in germany and its getting quite popular. as this is my first post on Wikipedia I am quite confused.

[edit] Holocaust

What prompted you to move "Holocaust" to "The Holocaust"? To me, it looks like that title is against naming policy. Besides a lot of links into the article would be redirected unnecessarily, because I believe most people would link to the word "Holocaust" itself without "The" in front of it. Please let me know on my talk page. Happy editing, - Mgm|(talk) 16:51, Mar 26, 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Armenian Genocide

I am having difficulty talking to anyone in the discussion, All I get is "Genocide is real, go away" (paraphrasing). My spelling corrections are reverted, declared vandalism. Fadix declared ownership to the article and wikipedia on any Armenian - Genocide related article. He is completely ignoring the NPOV logic, he is interpreting meands from NPOV article which are far fetched to say the least. Not to mention the level of Personal attacks from Fadix. --Cool Cat My Talk 01:40, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I clearly understand what you are saying, but the problem is he convinced himself that he is right and I am ignorable. I dont know how but he should be shown that his behavior is not plesant as far as admins are concerned. (personal attacks + constant reverting + I know best go away) thing. He first needs to start talking properly and stop the "Academia uniformly says this you all are biased" attitude. I am not sure how to deal with him. I know this is being an extra strain to your valuable time but given how you introduced me to wikipedia, you have a talent in dealing with people who star of as me :) --Cool Cat My Talk 02:02, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Oh and by the way, you may want to archive a bit ;) --Cool Cat My Talk 02:03, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hmm... How would you start? --Cool Cat My Talk 02:18, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yes but he revers spell fixes. He declared he will ignore me and he is waiting for "administration" to ban me or something, I am not sure. he doenst realise that there is no "administration" but a few adins. He will not back down on anything nor discuss it properly, also can you support my color tag in the article discussion as people are ignoring it due to their perosnal hate towards me. I know you like it, I know I like it. They may like it... --Cool Cat My Talk 02:24, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

OK. Can you also point out to Fadix that he cant just ignore me and revert my edits without reading?? --Cool Cat My Talk 02:37, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Done, however I do need your support in the article, not that in anyway am I sugeesting you to side with me, but tell them that they need to discuss it instead of ignoring me. They are waiting for my ban or something. They may listen to you. Just tell them to dicsuss and talk. --Cool Cat My Talk 02:45, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Also can you lock my mediation template? At least for now? --Cool Cat My Talk 02:52, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

What is RfC ? --Cool Cat My Talk 03:04, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Btw template is Template:User:Coolcat/mediat. I am not concerned about vandalism, but accidentaly comments being posted into the template. --Cool Cat My Talk 03:08, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

See also: Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:User:Coolcat/mediat. — Davenbelle 06:34, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Tony Sidaway is anti-House Hippo

What's up with that?

There are articles about articles on WikiPedia.

a true "Vanity" article would be me making an article called "linkremoved.com"


Or lipstick

[edit] Armenian Genocide

I am not suggesting the Turkish view should be in the article. I am suggestiong Armenian/Pro genocide view be filtered out and article discusses matter 50/50. Not dening The genocide nor supporting. However Fadix suggests this is a POV. --Cool Cat My Talk 07:53, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

50/50 when it is not presented 50/50 in the Academic world IS POV. Neutrality is NOT presenting two poaitions as equal, it is not deleting one positions arguments because they are stronger. This is what you want. Fadix 15:49, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ranks and Insignia of NATO

Aside from the time consuming contraversial articles I developed this. What do you think? --Cool Cat My Talk 07:53, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] A note for people who want to discuss Armenian Genocide, etc

Please do not put anything that might possibly be construed as a personal attack on anyone here. This page is intended for me to communicate with other people and lately it's beginning to look like a pub brawl. I've removed some of the worst material. Please don't contribute any more, that was enough. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 17:39, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Personal Attack

Read your post after posting. My bad. --Cool Cat My Talk 20:30, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Alien parasites

Hi Tony. The Alien Parasites vandalism has resumed on its VFD page. Cheers. TigerShark 23:54, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I don't think the page should be protected. How can people establish notability? r3m0t talk 00:25, Mar 28, 2005 (UTC) (PS reply here or at Talk:The Alien Parasites)

[edit] Da dispute

As you requested complaints regarding users are comented out, they will not stop reverting my edits as I asked them not to revert but comment out. I cannot reason with them as they claim biased on any article I put up a comment. I was atempting to mediate a discussion on several articles and they overwhelmingly were against it, they never posted anything on those articles. I never posed as a mediator in Armenian genocide, I clearly sateted that my default template be used to discuss the matter and that I will not be mediating, Instead they just harrased me. It is clearly established that Armenian Genocide is a dispute and should be presented as one. Fadix on various articles created an aurora of "Murderous Turks" which is not necesarily true. I made points in the Armenian Genocide article disputing their claims, claiming that the "majority of academia" is just not how we should be baseing things. One thing their request for a one sided article or a pro-genocide article proves that the genocide isnt as powerfull of a case they claim it is, if that were the case a 50/50 page would be more than saticfactory. Also if the article is not 50/50 some misguided Nationalist will vandalise it. --Cool Cat My Talk 00:42, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

You are such a liar, at least when I accuse you of something, there is a backup. Where did I created an aurora of "murderous Turks"? I have enough of you, look dude, I had 2 hard days of work, and I have to read yet again your stupid "trollian" posts to get articles involving turkey hijacked. Find other articles to hijack, because the Armenian Genocide article won't be one of them. Fadix 00:26, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I was going to experiment with my mediatopn skills. I could never paractice that ability yet. I can be unbiased as long as the other party does not insist that his bias is neutral and that I am biased for suggesting that his facts may not be facts. --Cool Cat My Talk 01:02, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia wide edit

As soon as I am done with my NATO article Ill seek out anything related to Armenian Genocide troughout wikipedia, I will re write it in a tone that does not dispute the thesis nor does it acknowlege it but instead guides user to Armenian Genocide Article. What would you suggest I do to achieve this? If I do this alone people with Misguided Energy like Fadix will revert it without reading it. --Cool Cat My Talk 01:52, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] You've got mail!

For your exeptional "mediative" handling of my, fadix's, and all other parties', I hereby award you the cool as cucomber award, congradulations. I know we have been a noocience. (I also know I cant spell). --Cool Cat My Talk 06:03, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! I popped it onto my user page. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 11:44, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Get it straight

Moved to Talk:2003 invasion of Iraq

[edit] hey sorry bout that

hey sorry dude. just was messsing around on the site for the first time and figured out how to start a new page dude. sorry brah, wasnt heady at all. oh yeah check out phish. best live music ever.

[edit] Martin Heidegger quotes

Hi, the reason givenfor deleting all your quotes from this article was that most of them were unreferenced. Could you provide the source of each quote, that is, the work of Heidegger in which it appears, please? And if possible the edition and page number. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 16:23, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I only contributed one of the quotations. It was referenced, and I have restored it. But some of the other quotations did give the essay that they were from, if not the page number. --Goethean 16:32, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Armenian Genocide

Can you tell me what you think? Is this proper way to discuss things on wikipedia, I tried being fair to them all I always get is insults from all 3 - 5 of them. You must interfere the way they are trying to discuss this, on their own. --Cool Cat My Talk 22:28, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Well if there are three-to-five of them, clearly they're not on their own. In your position I would walk away from this one, your edits are far more appreciated on other articles. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 23:02, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I understad, but I should not let POV passed ariund just because 5 (maybe clones) want to push it. Can you lock the article for a while? --Cool Cat My Talk 23:06, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The discussion curently is why I am bad or why I am biased anyways, Ill just stick around the discussion untill they start reasoning. They are 5 newbies, I think I can make 5 veterans out if them, THough meanwhile I dont want the article to be comprammised. --Cool Cat My Talk 23:10, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
So we're clones right? That claiming you're a Turk, for participating in every enteries regarding Tueky is an unfounded accusation, but to accuse people just because they support what most academics support as being clones makes just sense right? Look, there are many other articles beside those regarding Turkey which you can participate in. You don't even know what neutral is, and as an engeneer, one would believe that you had the intellectual capacity to distinguish between neutrality and the presentation of two different but equaly valid theses. That you still persist, further support my "bad fate" claim against you. Fadix 00:32, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I cant convince them to discuss... --Cool Cat My Talk 23:53, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

How does one suggests a WP:RFC?

Go to WP:RPF and, in the "Article Content disputes", make an entry very briefly describing the problem. eg:

  • Armenian Genocide - <summarise how the problem in as neutral language as possible here>.

Fill in the bit in angle brackets with your own words. About thirty words or so is about right. The shorter the better. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 06:26, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Both done, after 5 secs passed I placed it Fadix posted stuff almost instantly. Is there a policy regarding "hunting users down based on what they think regarding one article" ? --Cool Cat My Talk 02:08, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Show me where Mr. Coolcat, the owner of the server can check the logs to display my presence. I have nothing to do with it. On the other hand, you have just registered another member. The next time you use another alias, be careful to not make the same kind of grammer mistakes, and edit the article with expressions you were known to use. With that, you are killing the Wikipedia spirit. You have claimed yesterday that you could use proxies if you wanted to, and no one would know. You should have thought twice before placing your plan into execution. You've did a serious mistake Oghlum. Fadix 16:24, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Why do you think there's a 'user contributions' link on your page? Would you like to know how to disable it? — Davenbelle 05:00, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] User:82.124.54.4 and 82.124.140.225

I assume that these two people are the same, given that they have "both" inserted the same tirade at Terri Schiavo. Seems to be vandalism to me (even if it may be well-meaning). Could also consider it 4 reverts in 24 hrs, assuming you can consider the person to be the same. Not quite sure what (if anything) one should do about this. Thanks. Guettarda 16:47, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. I didn't really understand your comment about Irismeister on the TS talk page. Guettarda 16:58, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bahá'u'lláh

I just protected because somebody requested it, and from looking at the history the reason for the request was obviously valid. While I know what the dispute is fundamentally about, I haven't followed it enough to know if some or all of these IPs are the same person. But if it's Martin2000 choosing not to log in, then he has used the talk page before. I'm always leery of range blocks because of the potential to affect other editors besides the one causing problems, but for IPs that can be confirmed as open proxies it sounds fine to me. --Michael Snow 17:05, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Weight training

Tony, the protect was requested is to give the participants a chance to work out their differences in Talk. This has worked for some much more contentious articles. I will revisit this soon to see if there is progress. If so, the participants can request unprotect. If there is no progress, I will unprotect it myself. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 17:02, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Tony, you are right. I looked at the history before I protected it but it didn't click in my brain that the date of the last edit was a week ago, so I've unprotected. Maybe Taxman meant to point me to a similar article. Thanks, Cecropia | explains it all ® 17:26, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Tony, I've protected the actual article where the dispute is taking place. Mediation is a good suggestion but I'm trying one step below that to see if the users can "mediate in place" on the subject article. I'm also setting up a "Draft" article for the participants to kick around. This has been done successfully in the past and will give all concerned an opportunity to work and also gauge the intentions of all to work productively. Cheers, Cecropia | explains it all ® 17:52, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] CP

My favorite one is this one image:Grillon1.jpg. My husband took it, it is my shoulder and a sweetie I found in the house. I took about 50 pictures of it. It stayed a while on angela talk page; She was scared of it, and thought it would scared trolls away.

What do you think of my logos ? http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Anthere/logos

On the cp issue, the fact is that I thought we reserved the designation "under copyright" to precisely those pictures which were copyrighted but which we could not freely use due to restriction (such as "ask me before using it" or "only for non profit use"). This is what is done on most other wikis. In fr, the qualifier "under copyright" is mandatorily accompanied by the tag "fair use" for this reason. Anthere

[edit] David Yost

Thanks for the help with the article. Hopefully the vandals will get bored before the protection expires. Tbjablin 18:38, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry to bug you again, but could you help me out with the David Yost page again? You seem to think 24.141.241.66 is not a troll, and I am willing to accept your judgement on this, but he reverts everything I write. It's been very difficult to have a discussion with him. Unless I understand nothing of wiki policy, yost as a verb/noun is barely a neologism with only 24 hits on google and hence does not belong on wikipedia. 24.141.241.66 does not seem to accept my explanations to this effect. Maybe if you could explained wikipedia's policy to 24.141.241.66 he might be prove more pliable. I broke up my last batch of edits in part grammar and part content. If he reverts the grammar edits I don't know what type of conclusion we can reach except that he is a troll. This is such a minor topic that I really hate to bug you about it, but I don't want even small articles to be controlled by minority special interests when possible.

[edit] nitro sockpuppets

yeah, but he just keeps incrementing.

Now that they've closed off open proxies, what can we do to stop his nitro00xx series? Rick Boatright 20:21, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

well, I can't rever nitro006 back on the Baha'u'llah page or I am against 3rr...... So, I where do I post a request for a revert and page block? and who do I submit an arbitration formal request to? I'm really really tired of being called worse names here than I have been called in my 20 years as a usenet moderator (and not, that there is an ENTIRE WEB SITE devoted to how horrible the soc.religion.bahai moderators are, and Martin is STILL more offensive than those folks ever were.) Rick Boatright 20:27, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Coolcat again

Tony, please see my note re Coolcat at: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Coolcat running roughshod over Talk:Armenian Genocide. Thanks, Davenbelle 22:41, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)

check your email, Davenbelle 23:58, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Why locked on his edits

That's outragious, why has the edits being reverted to the vandalised version and locked on it? The article as is was suggested to be presented for peer review, while who I suspect being Coolcat, has sabotated the article. While one version was the result of discussions, the other was a simple hijacking of the article. I must admit being disgusted of what you did, it was nothing more than taking position. Fadix 22:59, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)


You have been engaging in aggressive reverting. Where a sysop protects a page because of edit warring, he is permitted to select the version favored by the less aggressive party. This doesn't imply that I endorse the version I protected on, but I judged that protecting the article on the version favored by you would not encourage you to take a cooperative attitude. Please engage in discussion over the article, and stop conducting personal attacks on other editors. See also m:The wrong version. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 23:04, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Actualy, I think that is so outragious that you have abused of your administrator privilages Tony, and I think I will have to report you. Pay closer attention to what you have done. Fadix 23:07, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I've put a note on WP:AN asking other sysops to review what I have done. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 00:41, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Tony, see my answer to Carbonite at the talk page. Your decision was obviously the wrong decision. How can you lock the article on edits made by a new alias just registering yesterday? Read the absurd changes, this is beyond POV, while my article was much neutralised. Besides, how can you lock on a new edit like this, when the article being asked to be commented on, was the previous version? While my edits were all justified on the talk page. Fadix 00:58, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

From even the most cursory perusal of the Armenian Genocide page's history, it's perfectly obvious to me that this Fadix character is behaving like a Holocaust Denier himself, and should be banned from WikiPedia altogether. Tony, you've done the right thing, and I'm sure your fellow sysops will concur. Nevertheless, the Armenian Holocaust is a fact, not an opinion. - Unsigned 67.161.42.199

I then think you should check the history a second time, Tony locked the article on a genocide revisionist edition that was POV oriented. I wonder how I can be like a Holocaust denier, when it is the other side that is actualy denying a Holocaust? Coolcat even question the Jewish Holocaust. Fadix 03:05, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I personaly think the "Holocausts" factuality is open for debate, sys ops will not interfere with the process, they never do. They may remove the block if they think Tonys action was in aproporate, but they will not declare genocide as a fact. Thats for us to debate, you are welcome to join. --Cool Cat My Talk 11:26, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Greco-Turkish relations

"ghastly colors" are back at Talk:Greco-Turkish relations — this after user:Adam Carr asked Coolcat to not attempt to mediate there. — Davenbelle 01:47, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)

Adam Carr a PhD in history? It is persons like him that are needed in the Armenian genocide entry. Fadix 02:32, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This is not your talk this is Tonys talk, keep your own talk in your own user talk page. Thanks --Cool Cat My Talk 03:21, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Armenia and other pages

  • Article Discussion Edit this page + History Move Watch

I just noticed the top items have been replaced with new terms, is this wikipedia wide wandalims or not? Or is it a twisted April fools joke that I do not appriciate.

  • Article Groupthink Censor + History Teleport Stalk

--Cool Cat My Talk 04:50, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 2003 Invasion of Iraq

Hi, since you are active in the article, I believe we can work together for a second time to merge lost of articles cluttering wikipedia. Us working together is very productive in my opinion. Since I know the wiki way I dont think we will have the "newbie friction". --Cool Cat My Talk 11:16, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kurdistan Workers Party, Abdullah Ocalan

Curps is claiming my templates are inaproporate, what do you think? Material is not removed in any way from the article. --Cool Cat My Talk 12:04, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

What bothers me is my work been reverted quietly. Where should I post for such concensius? --Cool Cat My Talk 12:20, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Can you make sure my templates are not deleted as the discussion commences?

I cannot condone your use of personal templates on talk pages. There is no consensus for that and obviously your actions are upsetting people.
Please understand that your problems are caused in part by your failure to react appropriately to the circumstances. They're being unreasonable, boorish and rude, but so are you. I've tried my best to tell you all to behave yourselves. It's up to each of you how you take it, but I can't make you all act like grown-ups, can I? --Tony Sidaway|Talk 00:47, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I just was trying to contribute. I personaly take revert as a very hostile action. Sorry to bother you. It apears you had taken some of the fire. At least you are warm now. --Cool Cat My Talk 07:37, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit]  :-)

I appreciate your attempts to get this dispute between Cool Cat, Davenbelle, Fadix and Stereotek sorted. It seems I still have a lot to learn with regard to performing dispute resolution. Mgm|(talk) 12:23, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)

Actualy, I believe Tony has abused his powers by locking the article to an edit made by a new alias registering just yesterday or the other day, and when the edits were all what Coolcat was after. This is a clear abuses of power, because the article was submitted for comment and peer review and mediation. Read the article yourself and compare the changes, that you know the subject or not, you will see that the edits are obviously POV oriented. That is outragious, given that the article was pretty much neutralised by its tone. Fadix 01:45, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Users: Davenbelle, Stereotek are still reverting my edits wikiepdia wide, declaring it vandalist Pov. I am sory spelling corrections etc is not POV. And I want auto sig. --Cool Cat My Talk 12:31, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I welcome you to vote in: Wikipedia:Requested moves for soulthern kurdistan article. Davenbelle of course opposes it. He opposes everything I say because I am a "denialist" heh.

Seriously Davenbelle and Stereotek's disruption of my edits by constanly reverting almost any edit I make should be dealt with I ask for help. --Cool Cat My Talk 12:59, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Do something. :P Put a block if you like, check their contribs. both of theirs. You will se a very disturbing pattern. --Cool Cat My Talk 14:03, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I am sorry, I am too irritated by Davenbelle, lack of progress of removing his conduct towards me is rather too slow. --Cool Cat My Talk 16:39, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

There are too many OP IQ 2003 articles. I was trying to move people. Apperantly it is imposible to do anything in grand scale... I mentioned articles that are identical just oposing views. Views of the american gov should be incorporated into the article. After a clean up most articles can be condensed. I am sorry I cant contrubute much Davenbelle,Stereotek have effectively removed me from wikipedia, I may return back someday. --Cool Cat My Talk 16:47, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I dont want you to block them make sure they dont try to destroy my credibility and not declare anything I add POV. This is not a serries of sidputes, user are "hunting" me down because of what I am trying to do in "Armenian Genocide", check their contibutions, how fat back their reverts go? What else have they done? --Cool Cat My Talk 22:11, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

They think you're doing harm to Wikipedia. I happen to disagree with them. But still you should try to listen to them. Try to find out why they think that. The flip side of being bold is that you have to learn how to carry it off. Not everybody can do that. But I can assure you that it's worth trying, if only because the interpersonal skills you learn will carry into your everyday life. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 22:17, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
How do you expect anyone to believe Coolcat, and now a PhD in history told to Coolcat to clearly leave an article alone. How do you expect anyone to even consider him, when he has been trying to edit World War I entry regarding the Armenians, the "Genocide History" article, another one regarding Holocausts, any artciles relating directly or indirectly to Turkey, cincluding Greek relations, Kurdistan, PKK, and even touched Armenia entry and so on. This guy has even lied about such unrelated stuff as his ethnicity, and he even maintained his lie after it was reported to him that he has called the Ottoman turks as his ancestors, and that he has in various occasions called Armenians, "Armanians" a common mistake made by Turkish speakers, because of the prounciciation of "Ermeni" in Turkish. I assure you that as time passes, he's trolling character will become clearer and clearer. We're at a point, that I would rather discuss with Torque than this troll. We think he's doing harm to Wikipedia, you are free to agree or disagree, but when taking a closer look at his POV i9njections in every articles relating to Turkey, I hardly see how many sensible person could disagree that he is really harming Wikipedia. Fadix 02:27, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I cant talk to them when they arent reading discussion before reverting. The Northen Cyprus flag is a peice of cloth it is not POV. --Cool Cat My Talk 22:36, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well that's a bit disingenuous--or naive, you choose which. Suppose somebody walks around the Turkish part of Nicosia/Lefkoşa waving a Greek Cypriot nationalist flag, do you suppose it would be seen as just a bloke with "a piece of cloth" on a stick in his hand? Or might they perhaps infer a political dimension to the cloth? --Tony Sidaway|Talk 22:54, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I clearly stated the flag was unofficial, according to the cia factbook not considers themselves as a seperate country. The flag does exist according to the cia factbook...

Also someone is keep deleting my templates. I need the templates where they are while discussing their usage. I cant dempnstrate their usage when they are not there. --Cool Cat My Talk 00:42, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC) dont care anymore. --Cool Cat My Talk 07:34, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I am not trying to harm wikipedia. I am trying to provide relevant information. My intentions are good. I do not appriciate the "revert" hostility. If people explained what they did not like about my edit and coment out my edit and try to rewrite it below things would be different in my honest opinion. Reverting is the worst way to aproach a "POV" edit. I am a reasonable party, I listen if my edit is not removed but commented out. --Cool Cat My Talk 07:34, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You ARE harming Wikipedia, you can deny that all you want, it won't change anything. Fadix 20:02, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Done

Yes, he's just being an obstinate nuisance and showing no signs that he can be integrated into the Wikipedia community. As Gamaliel indicated on the noticeboard, if he would stay civil and argue his point within the rules of the system, he'd probably find a few people willing to support him, since the fundamental principles are not terribly different from some of the other articles where "image censorship" is an issue. --Michael Snow 22:34, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] talking

Ill try to talk to them in good failth yet again. I have "too" much good failth so far in my opinion. This is the last time I will be trying to comunicate with them. --Cool Cat My Talk 00:53, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC) Guess I was over reacting, side effect of the revert war. Although the other party is yet to discuss. I currently am all ears. Bad temper is a bad habit :( --Cool Cat My Talk 07:28, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bad maps

Your help and common sense is needed. User:Kelisi, has been producing some maps and trying to replace the CIA maps for several Caribbean and South American countries. In my opinion these new maps (which have more detail than the CIA maps) are vastly inferior. They use garish colours, terrible decorative fonts, use a horribly large pixel size and are generally ugly and crowded, and look terribly amateurish and like they were produced on a Commodore 64 or something. Here is a list of maps he has produced . http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=Kelisi&hideminor=0&namespace=6. Perhaps the worst example is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Brazilmap.gif . Bizarrly these maps seems to have support from a few people who have been trying to push through their inclusion on several pages. Please see talk:Panama and talk:Honduras. Jooler 09:20, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] hello from India

Hello, I am writing this message from India. I am working as a Senior Manager of a premier Bank of India.

“Johar Jharkahnd”, the article which was recommended for deletion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Log/2005_March_27#Johar_Jharkhand) was placed by me. I am new to wikipedia and I had just put the article, which I had written for my Bank’s House Journal. Out of context, it certainly looked babelfish translation / weird / contained pidjin-English words and was certainly not encyclopedic. I am convinced that the decision to delete the article was correct. However, I can assure you one thing- the article was never intended to read like a Nigerian email scam.

I am very new wiki and within a week, I have become a wikipedian addict. I am sure to participate in the wiki experience and contribute in a positive manner in creating a free encyclopedia. . Thanks…. Byeee. --Bhadani 14:18, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] OK Tony, that's it

Unlock it, I have shown you that the edits were ill faithed, you've answered by presenting two versions. What do you want me to do more than this? I've finished my other entry, and submitted it. Ottoman_Armenian_Population And now, will be working on other related entries, you are participating by your action to the dissolution of the genocide entry, by ignorant nationalists. As you see, I am gently asking you to correct the obvious mistake you've made. Fadix 03:29, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)


[edit] I got the hang of templates, still glitch with tables, what next?

I just want to master all the ways we do things here. :) --Cool Cat My Talk 00:16, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] deleting criticism

Hi Tony, I thought I'd ask your opinion of User:Coolcat's practice of deleting criticism of himself on Talk:Armenian Genocide?

See: [1] [2], for example.

— Davenbelle 12:25, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)

he doesn't seem to see where there is bad faith, he most probably won't see why Coolcat has deleted it. Fadix 14:16, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] article Awasthi under VfD

Hello Tony, I just edited the article but while editing I had forgotten to log on. I had also placed my intention to edit the article, while giving my comments in respect of VfD. How can the edits which I did can be given to me? Please help me, if possible.--Bhadani 19:39, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Huh?

I went to Put in a Request, but all that it did was show me requests already listed. There really didn't seem to be any place that said, "Type your request here."

[edit] I guess I owe you an apology. :)

I have read your post distancing yourself from Coolcat, so I guess I have to apologies for my insinuation that you did take position, and have understood that perhaps my “overreaction” on Coolcat last change because of his previous edits, was similar to your reaction of choosing the new edit against mine, because of my previous overreaction. Fadix 23:56, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] I guess you have an explanation to make for this: [3]

I am a minority that should be ignored, huh? My views will have no influence on the article huh?

I want facts, the very casification of this as "Genocide" is flawed. That is like classifiying ww2 as genocide as so many civilians died on any european country. It is inaccurate to present Genocide as if it is as factual as fusion. When mass number of people die it isn't necesarily "goverment extermination". Besides, why are you taking sides? --Cool Cat My Talk 00:22, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Genocides are classified by UN and such organizations, we have no take in this. Genocide is both a legal and a historical word. The word was coined by Raphael Lemkin, who was a lawyer. I know this would better serve to be posted at the Armenian Genocide talk page, but since you bring it here. Here those are Lemkin words:
"In 1915 the Germans occupied the city of W. and the entire area. I used this time to read more history, to study and to watch whether national, religious, or racial groups are being destroyed. The truth came out only after the war. In Turkey, more than 1,200,000 Armenians were put to death for no other reason than they were Christians ... After the end of the war, some 150 Turkish war criminals were arrested and interned by the British Government on the island of Malta. The Armenians sent a delegation to the peace conference in Versailles. They were demanding justice. Then one day, the delegation read in the newspapers that all Turkish war criminals were released. I was shocked. A nation was killed and the guilty persons were set free. Why is a man punished when he kills another man? Why is the killing of a million a lesser crime than the killing of a single individual?
I identified myself more and more with the sufferings of the victims, whose numbers grew, as I continued my study of history. I understood that the function of memory is not only to register past events, but to stimulate human conscience. Soon contemporary examples of genocide followed, such as the slaughter of the Armenians in 1915. It became clear to me that the diversity of nations, religious groups and races is essential to civilization because every one of those groups has a mission to fulfill and a contribution to make in terms of culture.... I decided to become a lawyer and work for the outlawing of Genocide and for its prevention through the cooperation of nations.
A bold plan was formulated in my mind. This consisted [of] obtaining the ratification by Turkey [of the proposed UN Convention on Genocide Ed.] among the first twenty founding nations. This would be an atonement for [the] genocide of the Armenians. But how could this be achieved? . . . The Turks are proud of their republican form of government and of progressive concepts, which helped them in replacing the rule of the Ottoman Empire. The genocide convention must be put within the framework of social and international progress. I knew however that in this conversation both sides will have to avoid speaking about one thing, although it would be constantly in their minds: the Armenians."
[From Lemkin papers, With permission of the Rare Books and Manuscripts Division, the New York Public Library, Astor, Lenox, and Tilden Foundations.]
Another one from him: "This conversation is a matter of conscience and is a test of our personal relationship to evil. I know it is very hot in July and August for our work and planning, but without becoming sentimental or trying to use colourful speech, let us not forget that the heat of this month is less unbearable to us that the heat in the ovens of Auschwitz and Dachau and more lenient than the murderous heat in the desert of Allepo which burned to death the bodies of hundreds of thousands of Christian Armenian victims of genocide in 1915." [Letter from Lemkin to Mrs. Thelma Stevens of the Methodist Women’s council, dated July 26, 1950. Cited also in Israel Charny’s Genocide Encyclopedia.]
Besides, not only do you deny the Armenian genocide, but you have even denied the Holocaust, the two most studied cases of genocides. The inventor of term, is the first to decide what represent the term. If I invent something, and call it "fafu," and that I refer to my "invention" as "fafu" no one in future could actualy claim that "fafu" is not "fafu." Lemkin in his work "Genocide"(translation of “Le Crime de Génocide”), present the Armenian cases as part of the definition when he writes: “history has provided us with other examples of the destruction of entire nations, and ethnic and religious groups. There are, for example,… and more recently, the massacre of the Armenians.” (By Raphael Lemkin, American Scholar, Volume 15, no. 2 [April 1946]). Rabbi Steven L. Jacobs, Temple B’nai Shalom, Huntsville, Alabama, and Martin Methodist College, Tennessee, who has researched Raphael Lemkin’s papers, has classed some of those concerning the Armenians and compiled them by the name "Lemkin and the Armenian Genocide." Months before the introduction of this word in 1948 to the UN Hish commission of Human Right, on the date of May 28, 1948, on which date the United Nations war crimes commission released a report concerning the mass slaughter of the Armenians in World War I, followed by, the same year, on the date of December 9, 1948, the publication of the Genocide Convention by the United Nations High Commission for Human Rights... The Armenian cases was one of the few examples used in 1948, to finalize the Decmber 1948 convention on genocide. In short Coolcat, deniers of the Armenian genocide like you have no valid position. Sorry. Don't wonder why people might decide to distance themselves from you. Fadix 01:49, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
While some might choose to distance themselves from those holding negationist views, another option is to oppose them. Allowing such revisionism to go unchecked involves a degree of responsibility for the next instance of genocide. Genocide will, of course, continue to be a part of human nature until such time as we collectively grow up. Davenbelle 20:42, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Confussion

I didn't quite understand why i was a sent a message about what i presume was bad editing when i hadn't done anything of the sort!

[edit] Confussion

I didn't quite understand why i was a sent a message about what i presume was bad editing when i hadn't done anything of the sort!

[edit] Vote stacking

Hi there! I read the issue on AN/I about vote stacking. I would like to hear your opinions on the matter. This comes up occasionally on VfD, in two different forms. First, sometimes a webpage or forum is nominated for deletion, and a member of that forum asks other forum members to vote 'keep'. This is frowned upon, and the votes are generally ignored as sockpuppets. Second, for high schools (and only high schools) it is semi-common practice to keep a list in a central place (e.g. WP:AIW or User:GRider/Schoolwatch) to encourage en-masse voting (usually to 'keep'). And User:GRider (who is currently blocked for violating ArbCom ruling) has on two occasions sent a message to literally dozens of users to get them to vote on high schools. While his message was neutrally worded, it was systematically only sent to users who could be expected to vote 'keep'. Strage, no?

I believe that in general, vote stacking is a Bad Thing, and there has been some talk about creating a policy against it. I also believe that (for reasons that elude me) people who are normally perfectly calm and happy 'pedians, become irrational and angry whenever high schools are mentioned, start to factionalize everybody as 'either with me or against me', and copy/paste their votes (either keep or delete; the problem exists on both sides) with occasional snide remarks.

HTH. Yours, Radiant_* 14:01, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

  • On AN/I you said you hoped that mods would ignore stacked votes; at least on VfD, this isn't true; the votes are considered valid (despite claims that VfD shouldn't be about the votes, it usually is). (we also had a user once that added 'ignore this vote because of stacking' beneath about half the votes) Currently, high school articles get kept or deleted depending mostly on which mod closes the vote, since they tend to get between 60 and 70% deletes, and that may or may not be a 'consensus' depending on how you interpret it. This sounds, well, wrong, but I can't see a feasible solution. Radiant_* 21:07, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

Tony, I noticed this too. I'm going to leave some notes on the others' talk pages I think (although certainly not as many as Achilles - geez!). Do you think that would be a good way to counteract Achilles' spam, or would it just muddy up the vote even further? Cheers, TIMBO (T A L K) 21:00, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You're right, I've thought better of it. I hope the administrator who keeps/deletes this image doesn't take this influx of votes too seriously, though. TIMBO (T A L K) 21:10, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hello Tony, I wanted to let you know that I disagree with the comments you made at Jimbo Wales's talk page about Achilles reaching out to potential voters on the autofellatio image issue. I have posted my explanation of why I believe Achilles' actions are not spam on those two Talk pages. As a courtesy to you, I wanted to notify you here that I have made those postings since you may not be watching those pages. This way, you have an opportunity to respond if you wish. Regards, Johntex 21:17, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Defining bloat

Brilliant. Thanks. Guettarda 22:50, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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