Talk:Tommy Shaw
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page. | ||
| Start | This article has been rated as start-Class on the Project's quality scale. [FAQ] (If you rated the article, please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.) |
||
 |
This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed biographical guide to musicians and musical groups on Wikipedia. | ||
 |
This article is part of WikiProject Guitarists, a group dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to guitarists. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. |
| Start | This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. |
 |
This article has been marked as needing immediate attention. |
Contents |
[edit] Note
There were serious revisions needed to this article and they have been addressed and revised. This was more of a fan cite prior to the revisions. Marvtixx 06:20, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Tommys Birthday
Whos gonna Send Tommy a card or something for his Birthday??? I am!
[edit] Revisions by User:Marvtixx
I'd like to open a discussion about the recent revisions that were made by Marvtixx, and their subsequent reverts. I think there is some quality material there, and I'm wondering if we can get it integrated into the article. Marvtixx's approach might not have been the best (replacing existing text with new), but I'm going to chalk that up to inexperience with Wikipedia rather than malicious intent.
This article's complete lack of citations is a problem, I think. Does anyone want to help me find some citations for the existing text? I think if we start by verifying what we have, and then trying to integrate new verifiable text, we could end up with an awesome article. --Aguerriero (talk) 00:29, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Major Editing Performed - Article Looks Good Now
User Aguerriero removed a section titled "Tommy and his fans" since it was not written in an encyclopedic tone, and it was completely unsourced. --Aguerriero (talk) 04:11, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Prior to August 30, 2006, at least 8 major points in the article were erroneous and libelous including outdated links, unsubstantiated rumors, and totally opinionated negative remarks about the subject, tons of anti-fan material, as though some apparent Dennis DeYoung fans had taken over the page. Since that date, a lot of revisions have been made with the help of an informed user and an editor listed below and the article looks really good now. 66.168.246.88 17:10, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Revisions
I am glad to help overhaul this article. However, The new revisions are as bad as some of the older things they were replacing. Statements like, "crosshairs of destiny" or whatever are NOT encylopediac. It is extremely important on articles about musicians to be extra careful about avoiding turning the article into a fan cite. Even if you grew up with Tommy Shaw, or whatever, you have to keep the entry to cited statements of fact. RiverCampa 15:33, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Speaking of "encylopediac", which itself is not only a word that doesn't exist, it's also a typo of a non-existant word --- the remark RiverCampa made is opinionated itself as "crosshairs of destiny" is not beyond the realm of an encyclopedic writer. Case in point --- the biography for the great Jimi Hendrix on Encyclopedia Britannica Online states "His sensational appearance at the Monterey Pop Festival in 1967 and the success that year of the album Are You Experienced? lifted him to instant stardom, and his subsequent albums were among the most influential of the 1960s." That's an opinionated remark also with a bit of flair that's not necessarily "encyclopedic". What RiverCampa apparantly doesn't like is an author with a more than a modicum of self-expression; either that or he's as big a fan of Dennis DeYoung as the original author.Marvtixx 23:38, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I think you are being unfairly hostile to RiverCampa. He, like the rest of us who are attempting to edit this page, are trying to present a non biased reference. If you found eroneous statements in the original article, I think its great that you removed or edited them. The original article was done as a fan tribute to Tommy Shaw with statements like "he looks as good today as he did 20 years ago". I encourage edits of this page whenever people find false statements. I think that the wrong way to go about it is to 1) completely rewrite a page that several people have taken time to edit and 2) Insult people who are trying to constructively edit the page (the "thanks pal" comment in the edit history).
Its great that you have an inside knowledge of Tommy Shaw's past and your insights are valuable in the new section you provided - but remember that wikipedia is NOT encyclopedia britannica. It is a peer reviewed reference source. Self expression is subjective - wikipedia is objective. Thank you and your edits are appreciated. 98percenthuman 01:28, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't see anything constructive in the removal of bonafide, factual material from verifiable sources and the removal of unverifiable material, which is all I did and which is what this article sorely needed. Please don't remove the verified, footnoted material unless you have a legitimate reason for doing so, and if you want to leave old unverified info, back up the claims made with official and/or factual sources, which you cannot do as they are not factual nor official. The article had been suffering from fanisms and even somewhat libelous material on the previous edit, not mine.Marvtixx 17:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Revised the article further using cited sources and added a citation needed, plus with all the new material added, the timeline had gotten out-of-whack, so I straightened that out. It's nice to see that the cited material has remained and the article looks very good, professional & well-cited now without any fan-isms or negative, unsourced material. 66.168.246.88 17:05, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
I removed the paragraph which followed the References. Language like "When the multitude of circumstances availed themselves for him to recapture such, he embraced it and has made a personal commitment" isn't just inapproriate for an encyclopedia; it's bad writing for any format. Besides, it doesn't contain any necessary information. It looks like it came straight from the PR department. 63.25.108.98 20:04, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] A fan site??
I think that some of the revisions have been great but taking jabs at Dennis Deyoung is nothing short of making this a POV fan cite. The Kilroy tour was NOT a financial failure. It sold out 3-4 thousand seat theaters before taking on a second leg where it played to 8-10 thousand seat arenas. - oh, and record companies usually don't release double live albums of failed tours.
Also, Tommy's contributions during the time that "he wanted to rock while Dennis was writing ballads" are such vein busters as "Just Get Through This Night", "Haven't We Been Here Before", and "She Cares" while Dennis was writing things like "Rockin' The Paradise", "High Time", "Lonely People", etc. This should probably be made clear in the article. 98percenthuman 20:08, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree, the page _still_ reads like a "Kilroy Was Here Sucks" page. The tour was only a "failure" in comparison to their previous tours. And yes, Shaw was always as much the balladeer as DeYoung. However, citing "High Time" as an example of Dennis's rockin' side is no way to make your case. 63.25.108.98 19:42, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] A Trash-Tommy Shaw cite??
It's funny how you think those 3 DDY songs are rock-n-roll or anything resembling that --- they're Broadway tunes, pardner --- you know, the place that DDY wants to be where all the rest of the showtunes he hasn't wrote yet reside.
98%, you have absolutely no citations or factual background to back up your statements; the KWH tour was an abysmal failure critically and financially and there are plenty of sources to back my claims up. Sure, dream on and believe that people loved watching a 15-minute movie and then having STYX act on stage for 10 minutes before the band started playing the crap songs from that album. I saw it and was embarassed by the performance just as Tommy was and has stated in interviews and privately to his friends numerous times since. Styx didn't play those songs on their sole reunion tour with DDY in 1996; I wonder why. The problem is that most of the people who are STYX fans now didn't see them in 1983 and don't know the true story; luckily the facts and the critically-panned reviews still exist. Why do you feel it so important to waste your time insuring that Tommy Shaw's bio has libelous claims & complete falsehoods inserted by DDY fans like yourself? This is not a DDY or STYX page; it's a Tommy Shaw bio. Why don't you go and edit DDY's bio and keep tilting the STYX article the way you want it as you have been for the past few months and leave Tommy's page alone? I'll stay here for years way until the cows come home refuting your B.S. Marvtixx 02:23, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Marvtixx - You are warned. You are not constructively editing this cite. Please read Wikipedia's guidelines. You are hostile to many of us who are editing this cite and to those you somehow feel are politicing for Dennis Deyoung because we revise your uncited and poorly written POV edits. Please stop. User:98percenthuman 03:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Now YOU are warned, 98%Woman --- Please quit vandalizing the article with your ridiculous comments, unsubstantiated "factoids" and endless reverts or I'll report you to the Wiki Thought Police. I added ALL the cites that appear in the article now, which was completely uncited when I arrived, and 500% more than the average Wikipedia article. You're just mad because you have no facts to pound, so you pound the table. If you love Dennis DeYoung, fine, but leave Tommy Shaw's article alone unless you have facts to add; there's no reason to take out your hate & frustration on this article by removing cited work. Let's take this article line-by-line and argue every word of it, but don't point at me because you don't like the facts. Better yet, please go back to your Dennis DeYoung fansite.
Marvtixx 04:49, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
