Talk:Toilet

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Contents 1 Potty language 2 Social Bonding 3 Pardon my French 4 Irish jig 5 Ladies and gents 6 Euphemism or poop joke? 7 "Toilet" as impolite 8 Gender segregation and law 9 Washroom. 10 Removed Varian text 11 Toilet cuisine 12 Space Toilets 13 Gender and public toilets 14 more euphemisms required 15 freezer toilet 16 Graffitti 17 Legal nonsense 18 "Rest" Room of Respite! 19 Boing 747 20 Merge with "washroom?" 21 Shorten 22 Parenthetical remark 23 Water Tank 24 Islamic toilet practices 25 Etymology of Loo 26 Earliest known toilets 27 Lavatory 28 Toilet fixture vs toilet room 29 Water rather than toilet paper 30 Historical Manufacturers 31 ASCII pictograms 32 "Usual Euphemism?" 33 Uh? 34 History

[edit] Potty language

Can we get back to the point here - toilet designs in the home, public toilets, urinals, toilet designs (earth pit, standard water-flush, dual-flush designs, chemical toilets for boats, waterless systems etc). We also need an article on sewerage treatment, including alternative systems such as septic tanks. Maybe we need a page on toilet humor :)--~~

I completely agree. In my opinion, I think that youngsters should be able to use wikipedia. This means that they can go to a page about toilets without necessarily having to read naughty words. I think both the euphemisms and the graffiti can go to separate pages, or be cleaned up considerably. See Wikipedia:Profanity.FunnyYetTasty 13:54, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

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Do we really need the big list of euphemisms here? Perhaps they should go in the euphemism article... No, I've created a toilet humour article for this sort of thing. [unsigned user]

[edit] Social Bonding

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet#Social_bonding I find this to be sexist because it states that men talk about sporting events and politics and women gossip and talk about makeup. I would agree that a section about socializing in the bathroom is important but what the subjects discuss is not. Maybe it could talk about in what situations men and women use the bathroom in groups. MAH! 00:43, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Some might find it sexist; others, trivial. Rintrah 07:02, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pardon my French

The sentence in the first para about the french langauge doesn't make sense, can someone that knows what its meant to say change it? Thanks -Tango

Oh dear. Toilet itself is a eupmemisim. There is a whole fascinating history of the way people keep changing the word for the place you go to do the unmentionable. The French sense is the correct English sense too (as a quick glance at any half-decent dictionary will demonstrate), though a distressingly large number of younger people don't seem to be aware of it. This page needs a lot of work. Tannin 17:03 Jan 24, 2003 (UTC)

The etymology section supports this. What was and is the original word for "toilet"? At worst, it is referred to as the "ablutions" room. Rintrah

Yes. The following is from Adam Hart Davis' book.

Hamilton Ellis suggests that railway companies were responsible for the use of the word toilet. Eighty years ago some railway carriages had a room in which to wash, labelled `Toilet', opposite one with a water-closet, labelled `WC'. When the two rooms were combined, the `Toilet' label was used. -- Mintguy

The circle/triangle distinction is actually required by California law (Title 24) for public restrooms, to assist blind or partially sighted people to determine which sex a restroom is designated for. I was tempted to add this tidbit of info to the article, but it seemed like perhaps too much detail and a bit peripheral to the point that was being made. soulpatch

I don't ever recall seeing this Triangle/Circle thing in my travels, or in the UK.

[edit] Irish jig

I'm not sure whether it's worth mentioning that in ireland the "gents" is labelled "Fir" and the ladies "Mna", which can cause some confusion people with a grasp of English, but no Gaelic who assume that "Mna"'s similarirty "Man" means it is the mens rooms. Mintguy

[edit] Ladies and gents

I think that having separate mens and womens toilets is a mainly British (and American) phenomenon. I'm sure that most countries don't have this distinction? It seems to have nothing to do with the issue of men and women being in the same room at the same time - I have seen places where they have 2 individual toilets in completely separate rooms and they are still labelled for men and women.

In my experience abroad there is usually a separate mens and womens toilet, but from time time to you see a unisex one. This is much rarer in the UK, but not unknown. Mintguy (T)

There is (or was) a unisex public carsey in the shopping area of Epsom in Auckland, NZ.

Separation is usual in public buildings at least Germany and Austria. Mostly even in restaurants, bars, etc. I think there's even a law (as for most things). Unisex toilets are quite common in Sweden however. --Giese 17:31, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Euphemism or poop joke?

Wow! I didn't know "shit-house" was a euphemism... Cimon Avaro on a pogo stick

The singular distinction that in the US the word bathroom is used for a room without a bath has been lost since the last time I looked at this article. Mintguy 11:24, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] "Toilet" as impolite

"Today, toilet itself may be considered an impolite word."

AFAIK This only applies to the USA. It certainly isn't impolite in Britain.

"Today, toilet itself may be considered an impolite word."

Where is this impolite in the USA? While the word is not used all that often in conversation, I've never encountered embarresment at its usage.

I've never heard of it being impolite. Maybe the euphemisms are, but not plain old toilet. Well, at least when referring to the "throne" in a way that isn't intended to be humorous.

--/ɛvɪs/ 15:51, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

"Toilet" is mildly impolite (at least in the US) in the sense that it hasn't replaced the confusing word "restroom", which implies benches for the weary in there. This attitude is apparently held over from the 1950's, when Americans used similar euphemisms for pregnancy, sexually transmitted disease, or for anything else that could lead to lustful thoughts. Art LaPella 16:57, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Reading the article for the first time I notice the places where the words 'washroom' or 'bathroom' are used instead of 'toilet' for no apparent reason. I think it would read better to use the word 'toilet' consistently. (I'm not arguing for use of 'toilet' per se, I'm arguing for consistency). But since I'm a newbie here I haven't changed it (though I did feel bold enough to correct some spelling and punctuation). [unsigned user]

[edit] Gender segregation and law

From the article:

Various courts have ruled on whether transgendered people have the right to use the washroom of their gender of identification.

This implies that there are laws regulating the gender segregation. Is there? I'd like the article to be more clear on this, and also distinguish what laws in what jurisdiction it is talking about. ✏ Sverdrup 12:01, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Washroom.

There is some discussion ongoing at Talk:Washroom as to if that article should be a redirect here or if we should have a seperate article regarding the rooms that toilets are found in. - RedWordSmith 21:09, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Removed Varian text

I removed the following text, as I believe it's part of a negative publicity campaign by some lawyers from the Bay Area. I wasn't able to find any direct evidence of this in the first few pages of a Google search, which leads me to believe that it wasn't a "huge scandal".

"The U.S. corporation Varian Medical Systems created a huge scandal when it admitted using a hidden surveillance camera to secretly video record its employees and customers urinating or defecating."

If it's read, please include a source note.

kmccoy (talk) 07:08, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Here's what I found about it [1]:

Before Delfino lost his job Felch had complained that on hundreds of occasions he passed the window to her office and made hand gestures, mimicking her telephone conversations. Varian’s director of human resources installed a video camera in Felch’s office to try to capture Delfino’s gestures on tape. The camera remained in place for a few weeks. Defendants first learned of the video camera during discovery in this case. It happens that Felch’s office had windows on its hallway side. Employee restrooms were located across the hall from her office. It also happens that “Take Your Child to Work Day” may have taken place during the few weeks the video camera was operating. Putting these facts together, defendants began posting messages such as these: “Wow! [¶] Unbelievable testimony about children who used a Varian bathroom videotaped with a hidden camera” and “Bill, you may have said it best when you suggested prison time and stiff fines for those despicable individuals responsible for secretly videotaping unsuspecting employees and visitors going to the bathroom at Varian.” Defendants admitted posting more than 300 messages on this topic alone.

So, the scandal wasn't real. Perhaps the mention in this article was itself an instance of the smear campaign by the defendants.

Rpresser 03:42, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Toilet cuisine

This fixture is often used for a form of cooking known as orotopuyiew.

Is this for real?! Neither Google nor Yahoo can find any mention of the word. ettlz 16:32, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) (a disbeliever)

[edit] Space Toilets

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Anyone feel like doing a section or perhaps a separate article on zero gravity toilets? Such as those found in the International Space Station Google brings up plenty of material. --jmd 03:38, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

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Is there really a Cowsmopolitan magazine, or is this a typo (or deliberate spelling) of Cosmopolitan?

[edit] Gender and public toilets

Could someone add non-western pictograms, like this http://travel.u.nu/pic/ae/2975.jpg ? --Hhielscher 13:27, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

That's an interesting picture. We should add it, but I'm not sure it is really a pictogram, per se. Closer to a garden-variety illustration of a man and a woman. Looks to me like it is very specific to Arabic regions. What do you know about it?

Re illustrations, in many ethnic or themed restaurants and bars, it is common to use pictures of men and women in line with the theme. E.g., in a mexican restaurant, a guy in a sombrero and a lady in a native dress. This is what I mean when I say some pictures are pictograms and some aren't.

paul klenk ^talk 14:07, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] more euphemisms required

I wanted to add a euphemism for "Where is the toilet?" which is "Can you tell me the geography of this place?" but it doesn't seem to fit here. akay 12:39, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] freezer toilet

In Sweden, I got to know the "frystoa", meaning freezer toilet. It's like a freezer lying on its side with the door on top. The seat is built into the door and looks as usual. It containins a large plastic or paper sack. When the sack is full, you put it into the garbage can and hope it gets collected before it thaws... Obviously this could only become popular in a land where electricity is cheap! They're not very common anymore, but you can still get them.

I haven't added this to the list of toilet types because I don't know if there's an english name for the things. --Giese 11:11, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

If anyone else wonders what it looks like, here is a picture: http://www.skagert.se/bilder/Nyheter/Frystoa.gif --Hhielscher 18:31, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Haha, I lived my whole life in Sweden but never heard about a freezer toilet before. I guess this is the kind of thing people might use in their summer house or similar that often lacks plumbing. I checked out your link Hhielscher and it describes the toilet in detail. It seems to be the real deal, very nifty indeed, if you don't mind sitting on a toilet that is frozen to -15 C / 5 F that is. (That brings up nasty memories of unheated outhouses in winter...) That picture was advertising from a company selling building/construction equipment so I guess their customers use it on construction sites. I guess that gives a secondary advantage, the employees won't spend too much time sitting on the toilet... Giese, regarding the electricity used in that toilet, that page mentions that the energy used to freeze the toilet means heat in the room instead. Which of course is correct. That means you save on the heating bill instead, so not much of an extra cost. (Up here we heat our houses almost year round anyway.) I think that toilet should be added to the article, if nothing else to put a smile on our readers faces! Nowadays there are many other techniques to get toilets fairly low smelling even if you don't have plumbing and if we also have electricity available we usually add some ventilation. --David Göthberg 03:38, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

We first saw a freezer toilet in a stuga we rented, close to Enköping. That is, it wasn't in the house, it was in a little lean-to behind it. So much for the gained heat... you're right in supposing that one wouldn't spend too much time sitting there! It was also a little queer to see the landlady occasionally disappearing in there and then trudging to the dustbins, heavily ladden with, erm, you know...

Later, we lived in the outback of Halland, near Göteborg. We had what is known as a "miliötoa", probably because you just dump the contents in the environment. When that thing started leaking, the landlord offered to replace it with a shiny orange frystoa from the 70ies. We declined because the dustmen weren't very reliable, and we didn't want to know what would happen if the bags were left in the bin for two weeks.

I assure you, I really miss Sweden. Except for the sanitary aspect ;-) Giese 09:39, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Graffitti

I have noticed the second example of Graffitti is more elaborate than the basic one I recognise;

Here I sit, brokenhearted

Paid a penny and only farted

Is the second example well known now and I'm just not with the times?? Alf ^melmac 13:04, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Legal nonsense

"In the United States of America it is illegal to charge for toilet use for any reason. The Supreme Court in a decision stated that you cannot charge a person a fee, because relieving oneself is a biological necessity." Nonsense. See [2]. jdb ❋ (talk) 05:28, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Rest" Room of Respite!

... Maybe on the article about "Toilets as a Refuge" it should be made more gender neutral? I like the 'man's home is his castle', but just because it starts with this, doesn't mean it must be gender specific. I know women that also take their refuge there! Perhaps something more like this (as only a suggestion):

  "A man's home is his castle", the saying goes, except when it may be impossible to get a 
  quiet moment. It then falls to the toilet to take on the role of a smaller, but more 
  private castle for anyone (though females are more often culturally associated with 
  baths).  Thus, the toilet can be either a place of social meeting or a private refuge to 
  release stress and other things.

This way, the cultural bent is still shown to the reader, it's interesting, and retains some of the humor but it opens the idea to females as well as males. Anyway, just a suggestion (since there's quite a few paragraphs on gender/toilet issues).

Also, is there any etymology known for 'John', 'Crapper', 'Can', or 'Potty' (which it redirects from but fails to mention in the entire article)? I mean, we delve into the mysteries of the 'Khazi', which I've never heard of, and the 'Loo', which I have, but barely a passing reference is given to the other words or where they come from. Apparently 'Commode' refers to a dressing table... a fact I just learned tonight. That should also be at least mentioned here, because I was never aware that it was euphamism until now and was curious why it wasn't mentioned, so I looked it up seperately (along with John, Loo, Can, and Crapper, each bringing me to either a disambiguation page or a page that at least mentioned the connection... unlike the main page itself outside of 'loo'). I hope I'm not annoying others (I've read the previous post about euphamisms), and I'm only making a suggestions, however it seems logical (which doesn't mean that dirty language must be used). Oh, and since 'Toilet' is a euphamism, shouldn't this page be titled something different altogether? Is there a non-euphamistic term for it? Since Commode is given it's own stub, should Toilet? Would it then make sense to create a disambiguation page for all the primary non-rude euphamisms?

[edit] Boing 747

Is there a reason why that 747 toilet picture is there twice? 24.80.33.230 04:34, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

-Ever hear of Boeing Bombs? Watch Diry Joe, you'll see

[edit] Merge with "washroom?"

This article has many sections which appear to apply more to the restroom itself than the actual elimination fixture. Perhaps the individual sections should be moved, or perhaps the whole articles should be merged. Discuss. Citizen Premier 05:57, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

"Washroom" is an Americanism, not used in British English. In Britain the room is a "Toilet", and that is what it often says on the door. TiffaF 15:45, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shorten

This page is totaly exaggerated. An encyclopedia should tell you what something is, not have a philosophical discussion on the sociology of toilets. Trim it down to a quarter or so —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.72.19.78 (talk • contribs) 06:12, 24 May 2006.

Maybe. More of this information has merit than the content of Toilet Paper, for example. Unless the information is obviously trivial or indulgent, it is best just to read what is interesting and ignore the rest. I am suprised this article doesn't have a Dan Brown reference in a trivia section, like so many other articles. Yet his works are most relevant to the toilet. Rintrah 18:44, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok. The "Great Equalizer" addition is pointless. I didn't need to read the part about sexual encounters either. Rintrah 18:51, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Although some of the material does seem excessive, on the whole I think the article demonstrates that it is worthwhile having a big long article on this, covering many aspects. I am much more upset about all the very relevant info that is still missing!69.87.193.156 12:10, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Like the fluid mechanics governing floating stools, and how chaos and turbulence emerges when a toilet is flushed? Rintrah 06:59, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Parenthetical remark

The connection made between toilets and dirt, or distasteful items, has led to them being also used to dispose of wedding rings, letters or critical reviews with which one disagrees (cf. Goethe's example).

A reference would help the reader to confer this. Rintrah 18:44, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

for which dalliances toilets provide a convenient (though not necessarily sanitary or romantic) venue. Umm... yeah. Someone had fun adding that parenthetical remark. Rintrah 18:47, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Water Tank

The article covers such a wide range that it skips over most of the basic, plain info relevant to toilets in the US, particularly information to help understand how they work! There are no cross-sections, discussion of plumbing/sewerage systems, or links to such information! There is no picture of an old-fashioned separate water tank up on the wall, which would help people understand the term "water closet", and the evolution of the current standard US flushing domestic toilet. The one and only picture of such a toilet has the water tank very obscured. No discussion of the water tank internals, a frequent cause of problems and concerns (toilet running, amount of water per flush, small flush and big flush).

Focusing on the water tank would lead to mentioning that many commercial US toilets use the powerful direct water pressure instead -- no tank.69.87.193.156 12:21, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. Viridae^Talk 12:23, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Islamic toilet practices

Could the moderator please take note that references were added in the references section for the chapter on islamic toilet practices. clearly they did not see these so they are now on the site TWICE. Once you have viewed them please remove the second copy at the end of the chapter. How did you miss them?

• USC MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts
• Islamicacademy.org; Islam the Glorious Religion, Chapter 2
• Ask the Imam: Islamic Q & A Online with Mufti Ebrahim Desai

[edit] Etymology of Loo

I have removed some stuff from the section discussing the etymology of the term "loo" which I thought POV - the opinions on the plausibility of various theories.

The stuff about the model of toilet (or cistern) named the "Waterloo" seems to me to have the ring of a made-up folk etymology, and there is no hard evidence to support it being described as "another - and more likely - theory" . Most genuine etymologies are quite mundane - a shift in pronunciation from an older word, or the adoption of an existing word to a new meaning. I am suspicious of etymologies involving names, especially when they are as lacking in hard evidence as this.

I completely removed the stuff about another model of toilet called the "Trafalgar" - while the Waterloo theory is mentioned on some other webpages, I can find no other mention of the Trafalgar toilet.

TomH 22:48, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Earliest known toilets

I propose a link to http://www.mohenjodaro.net/latrine47.html which shows a series of the earliest known toilets in an urban setting, at the ancient Indus city of Mohenjo-daro in Sindh, Pakistan from roughly 2500 B.C.

I raise you 3100 BC for the toilets at Skara Brae, Sotland (admittedly a village rather than an urban example) 86.133.246.224 20:34, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lavatory

I propose that Lavatory should not redirect to Toilet, it should redirect to Washroom. The meaning of lavatory, according to my understanding of my native U.S. english, is the actual wash basin sink co-located in the room containing a toilet. Lavatory is also used as a euphemism for the room containing a wash basin sink and usually also a toilet. In my opinion, it would be better for lavatory to redirect to washroom.

As a UK English speaker lavatory and toilet are the same thing (but with different class connotations). The oxford english dictionary says a lavatory is a toilet. Lavatory originated from latin meaning 'place for washing' but this is not the current UK English usage. ChristineD 00:26, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Toilet fixture vs toilet room

The fixture known as a toilet and the room containing the toilet should be separate articles. It seems to me that this article is currently a mixture of both things. It would be better if they were separated out. To my usage of english, an article on the single word toilet should refer to toilet fixtures. I have no objection to calling it a toilet-room or toilet (room) or washroom or restroom. Pick something appropriate and generic and explicitly add the suffix room.

[edit] Water rather than toilet paper

"In the Middle East and some countries of Asia, such as India, the custom is to use water rather than paper, traditionally the left hand is used for this, for which reason that hand is considered impolite or polluted in many eastern countries."

Exactly how is this performed, do you take a handful of water in your left hand and rub it in your anus to clean it? And they certainly wash thier hands afterward don't they? The snare 04:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Historical Manufacturers

Do historical manufacturers of toilets belong under the manufacturing section? If so I would like to suggest adding Chicago Pottery Co. I don't know much about this company except the following (1) it no longer exists and (2) it manufactured toilets. I have hear-say information from our home inspector that these toilets are in demand for people doing period home restoration as many were replaced as newer toilets became available. Carleighbelle 16:06, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ASCII pictograms

Fairly much OT but I'm taken by the 'pictograms by Manfred Wolff-Plottegg[*] ... represent[ing] male and female sexual organs'.

Usenet has long needed ASCII-art smileys for genitals: ,|, and ()

[*] That is a genuine name, isn't it? This isn't a 32nd March entry here, is it? :-) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by John Stumbles (talk • contribs) 14:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] "Usual Euphemism?"

`The usual euphemism to ask if you need to use a toilet in North America is "Where can I wash my hands?".`

Living in the US, I've never heard this phrase used as a euphemism. More "usual" is "Do you have a bathroom?" michael 20:23, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Uh?

Second paragraph: 'The word "toilet" and its synonyms lavatory or "W.C.". can be used to refer to the fixture itself or to the room containing the fixture, especially in British English. In North American English the word "toilet" refers solely to the fixture itself and not to the room that contains it, thus asking for the "toilet" would seem indecent. Instead, the euphemisms bathroom, rest room, washroom or men's room / women's room are preferred.'

I don't get this. I'm British, and when I ask for the toilet I'm not asking for the room - I don't want to take a shit in the corner - I want the toilet itself. I don't want a bath, so why ask for the bathroom; I don't want a wash, so why ask for the washroom? Why is referring to the toilet itself indecent? 86.133.246.224 20:22, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History

I got sidetracked above. What I wanted to say is this article needs a section on the history of toilets, not just starting at the invention of the flush toilet. From my meagre knowledge, there are toilets in the Neolithic settlement of Skara Brae in Orkney, Scotland (3100 BC); there are also fine Romano-British examples at Vindolanda camp on Hadrian's Wall. There are some fantastic medieval shitters (side-by-side) at Fountains Abbey. And I see someone mentions Mohenjo-daro (2500BC) above. And does the article really need a section listing manufacturers? It could get really unwieldy if I add some UK examples. Isn't that what Yellow Pages is for? 86.133.246.224 20:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)