Talk:Tinea versicolor

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Hello, I just thought it might be good to include in the article that the moniker "Haole rot" is considered by many to be deragatory, It would be good to include that bit so that those unaware won't offend people by saying it.

Previously, this article mentions that tinea versicolor is also known as Peter Elam's disease, because a traveler named Peter Elam supposedly swam in the Amazon river and got infected with the yeast. I could not find a reference outside of Wikipedia on this, and therefore deleted it.Hfwd 05:01, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] UK Institue of Dermatology Treatment Protocol

Past telephone advice received from the St John's Institute of Dermatology (at St Thomas' Hospital) allowed me to construct a treatment protocol sheet. However given both that this is my construct and not endorsed by them, and the general policy of authors not referring to their own works in wikipedia, I am reticent about adding an external link to the guideline which is on my own website: http://www.Medik.Info/MI_Derm_PityriasisVesicolor.doc . So I seek the advice of other editors who may wish to add the link. David Ruben Talk 01:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

word document is not universal, maybe html would be better? Hfwd 03:54, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Agree with Hfwd. --Arcadian 12:44, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I'l get round to this sometime, I promise :-) David Ruben Talk 01:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was no consensus. -- tariqabjotu 21:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion to move to Pityriasis vesicolor

ICD9 clearly indicates that official international term is Pityriasis versicolor with alternative terms being "Infection by Malassezia [Pityrosporum] furfur, Tinea flava, Tinea versicolor"[1]. Should not the article be moved (drug names are as per WHO's INN) ? My nerve left me as I was about to BE BOLD, as I can appreciate Tinea versicolor as having some following. David Ruben Talk 01:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with a move. It may be the "official" International term, but that term is very little recognized in the English Speaking countries (this IS En.Wiki). Additionally, a vast number of references in the lay press, in all types of medical-nursing tomes, and the labeling and advertising of hundreds of products all refer to Tinea Versicolor. Better, I think, to have Pityriasis forward directly to this topic (a statement at the top of this topic page will indicate that a forwarding has occurred). This will help anyone who actually shows up and types the other term into the search box. -I am Kiwi 02:26, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Comment - "nursing tomes, and the labeling and advertising of hundreds of products" is not the most reliable method of ensuring articles are correctly named (wikipedia has Acne vulgaris rather than acne, "spots" or "zits" - all of which are more frequently used in advertising products). In my 13years experience in UK General Practice, UK Dermatologists & GPs overwhelmingly use "pityriasis versicolor", and with most GP surgeries now going to paperless notes, the main computer systems all recognise "pityriasis versicolor" as the primary term (I'll try tomorrow to see if the most widely used system recognises at all Tinea versicolor as a synonym).
  • See British Association of Dermatologists' Patient Information and Leaflets: Pityriasis versicolor](PDF)
  • The American Academy of Dermatology in its A-Z listing of conditions has under "P" "Pityriasis versicolor : Pityriasis (tinea) versicolor is a...", so it is "recognized in the English Speaking countries".
As for wider usage, there is not a "vast" difference between the terms: PubMed and (Google) searches gave: Tinea versicolor=780 PubMed (196,000 Google) vs Pityriasis versicolor 465 (143,000).
I wonder if anyone knows the background to these 2 terms - where and when did each term originate, is there a US / UK difference in usage, or is it a more general English / rest of world difference ? David Ruben Talk 04:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


  • """THUMBS DOWN"""
  • Recommend for Redirection
Go to the grocery store or drugstore and read the labels of products that cure or treat the condition and you will find tinea. Indeed, the tinea portion of the name is used for all the the common fungal infections of the human skin. Including fungal infections of the scalp (dandruff is the symptom of this infection with pyrithione zinc -in Head & Shoulders- & selenium chloride -in Seldane- recommended for treatment. These two chemical forumulations work because they are anti-fungals, and they also work on jock itch and the so-called ring worm. Seldane is prescribed by dermatolists to treat all types of tinea fungal infections.
The Merck Manual for patients uses the term. Articles in the lay press use it, not Pityriasis. As has been mentioned elsewhere on this website, Wikipedia is not a professional resource for professional specialists, but for the lay public needs. As I said, what is appropriate is for the "proper medically recognized name" to have its own page that will forward to this topic page. A nav box would best be served by having all the Tineas included, along with Dermatology, fungus infections and various other applicable linking topics.
It is appropriate and sufficient to, in the intro paragraph at the top of the page, to have a referenced explanation that the term is the correct medical terminology. It should include a definition of the word Pityriais. This will serve the purpose of educating people. Perhaps in fifty years, the grocery store shelves will be stocked with products labeled with the term, but I think Tinea will be with us for a long, long time. -I am Kiwi 05:35, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


Agree wikipedia generally goes for the commonly used term, but not always on medical topics (Heart attack redirects to Myocardial infarction). Yes EMIS (probably UK's most widely used GP computer notes system) takes Tinea versicolor as a synonym. As for the UK's "lay public needs", look at the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) public information service for health topics http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/conditions/ - tinea is not mentioned at all (which I admit surprised me). You are arguing over what promotional material (adverts and over-the-counter products) are available to you locally. Whilst I don't dispute the term you therefore may most commonly see, wikipedia has global reach, I think I've provided a broad enough range of sources to suggest that, at least in the UK, most doctors will use P.V., patients will be so advised, if they look it up at specialist UK website the term will be used and if they look on one of the UK's most used open websites the same will apply. Clearly your experience in US is for the other T.V. term. What would be nice is if other editors could now comment on what the situation is elsewehere (e.g. Canada, Ireland, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, India etc). David Ruben Talk 13:29, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Rebuttal

Below, I will attemp to present consecutive sets of contrasting points, first of Pityriasis, then of Tinea.

First of all, the Wiki disambiguation page for the word Pityriasis - Pityriasis The list includes
  • fungal conditions
  • auto-immune conditions
  • unknown-origin conditions ...
  • and a BIRD - Pityriasis gymnocephala


Pityriasis - 34,100 mentions in various online dictionaries - definition -

  • Any of a number of VARIOUS skin diseases of humans AND ANIMALS,
  • characterized by epidermal shedding of flaky scales.
  • a descriptive SYMPTOM, not a causation
  • From the Greek, meaning "dandruff" - only one result from Bartleby.com


Tinea - 73,100 entries solely in online dictionaries Its meaning, CONSISTENTLY throughout, is A FUNGAL INFECTION OF THE SKIN. - and 11 returns from Bartleby.com

Tinea, therefore, specifically refers to FUNGAL INFECTIONS OF THE SKIN and nothing else. That is its definition.


The various kinds of medical conditions associated with Pityriasis are these -
  • Pityriasis alba (also called 1) pityriasis streptogenes, 2) pityriasis simplex & 3) erythema streptogenes)
  • Pityriasis lichenoides chronica
  • Pityriasis lichenoides et varioliformis acuta
  • Pityriasis rosea
  • Pityriasis rubra pilaris
  • Pityriasis versicolor -


For Tinea (fungal infections of the skin) --

These fungi attack various parts of the body and lead to the following conditions:
  • Tinea corporis affects the arms, legs, and trunk
  • Tinea capitis affects the scalp
  • Tinea cruris (jock itch) affects the groin area
  • Tinea pedis (athlete's foot) affects the feet
  • Tinea unguium affects the fingernails and toenails
  • Tinea versicolor - affects upper body, chest, arms, back, stomach, neck and face
  • Tinea manuum affects the hands and palm area


BUT, Pityriasis means flaky & scaly - And the spots MAY be flaky and scaly, but NOT ALWAYS.
What IS distinctive of this specific fungal infection is the versicolor condition, where in the winter months, when most people aren't in the sun, tinea versicolor most often appears on the skin as pink to brown spots. During summer, those same pink spots turn to white spots when the surrounding skin tends to tan or generally darken. Exposure to heat hot baths, shower and after exercise causes the spots to be dramatically white spots against the surrounding flushed skin.


GOOGLE HITS

Google - 85,200 hits for - Pityriasis+fungal+&btnG=Google+Search

Google - 130,000 hits for Tinea+versicolor+fungal


GOOGLE SCHOLAR HITS

Google Scholar - Pityriasis+fungal 1,340

Google Scholar - 1,730 for Tinea+versicolor
Google Scholar - 4,190 for Tinea+fungas


This UK Dematology website, [2]

owned by Meddaid Ltd (and adhering to the Code of Practice of the British Pharmaceutical Association) gives a page to Tinea "Tinea is a type of fungal infection with one of a few types of fungus. Tinea infection can occur in many sites of the body such as the foot, groin and nails." [3] [4]

This same website does not feature the word Pityriasis for any dermatological conditon. (use search or click on "P" on above page). It can be found associated with non-derma conditions.


Tinea versicolor - from eMedicine at WebMD - Which is a doctor-training site, certified by Medical Licensing Boards to give CME Credits for various specialities -

[5]

  • There is a long list of authors and editors who collaborated on this article -- And it can be noted from the 9 bibliography entries that there is absolutely no agreement regarding any so-called official name. Tinea and Pityriasis are used equally freely, both two decades ago, and in this present day.

Examining all this (plus the journal and textbook links on Google Scholar) There has seemingly been no obvious trend towards one or another.

Search eMedicine.com professional journal article & CME database for Pityriasis, and you pull up these [6]


Then see the same eMedicine.com entry for ALL FUNGAL INFECTIONS of the dermis and note the conditions listed.[7]

Then, on BBC Online, under "Ask the Doctor" and under "Health Conditions", written by different Dermatologists, it says this - "The proper medical name for these (fungal) infections is Tinea, and this is often followed by the Latin name for the affected part of the body. For example, Tinea pedis affects the feet (also called athlete's foot), Tinea corporis affects the body and Tinea capitis affects the scalp."


another UK site -

[8] - Reviewed by John Pillinger, GP - What is pityriasis versicolor? --

"This (Pityriasis veriscolor) is a common skin disease caused by an overgrowth of the yeast fungus called Pityrosporum orbiculare (yeast also known as Malassezia furfur).
Most adults have Pityrosporum orbiculare on their skin; however, in a few people its presence results in a harmless skin disease.
Pityrosporum orbiculare also plays a role in the development of cradle cap (also known as seborrhoeic dermatitis). (end quoted section)


May I suggest that in THIS PARTICULAR fungal infection of the integument, that often associated with Pityriasis name possibly came to be more used because of the particular fungus involved - Pityrosporum, in addition to the fact that the lesions can be flaky and scaly. The two had a marked similarity at first glance, even though one was a description of how a lesion looks and the other a particular yeast organism.
What can be seen is that Tinea means "fungal infections" and there is a CONSISTENCY across the board with each and every other symptomatic fungal condition of the human integument.


Integument - Covering of the body, which protects it from the outside world and from drying out. In humans and other mammals it consists of the skin (including outer epidermis and inner dermis) and its related structures, including hair, nails, and sebaceous and sweat glands.

-I am Kiwi 07:05, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.