Talk:Timeline of the Marvel Universe

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents 1 Citing sources 2 Why shouldn't this be deleted? 3 1602 4 Alternate Universes?

[edit] Citing sources

What kind of source citations do you feel this article needs? All the events referenced already contain links to Wikipedia articles that cover the characters involved. I thought that was enough. Tracking down the exact individual comic book issues where the events ocurred would be impossible without access to an extensive collection of Marvel Comics. My main source was Robert Wick's Chronology of the Marvel Universe article (which is itself based on The Marvel Saga limited series put out by Marvel in the 1980's) which I have already provided a link to. I could add links to the Marvel Universe Handbook article, or to Marvel Comics.com if you think that would help with verification. I could also link to the Marvel Universe Appendix site, since several of the people who work there are responsible for the current slew of Marvel Handbooks. Wilfredo Martinez 14:15, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

The trouble is, all of the references you mention are from secondary sources. Marvel Saga isn't such a great source because it is just reprints of older material. I spoke with Robert Wicks while he was working on his chronology some years ago, and it is an excellent resource he has put together. Unfortunately, it rarely documents where he got his information. For an uninitiated reader, it would be extremely difficult to determine what was canon and what might be fanon without checking ten different related links.

Take a look at my biography of Major Vance Astro. It took me a long time to compile it, but with all of my references cited, I believe it is it has substantial value as a reference.

The wikichronolgy has stuff like the Phoenix Force being involved in the fall of Galactus' pre-Big Bang universe. That's amazing to know, but without references, I can't go dig up the comic that established it and read it for myself. A reference can be a link, but that is just a crutch until the original source of the information can be cited. (Ex: Ben Grimm was changed into the Thing by exposure to cosmic rays. - Fantastic Four v1 #1.)

Ideally, each page on Wikipedia should stand on its own with sources cited; perhaps using footnotes. There's some excellent information at citing sources--StAkAr Karnak 12:45, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

As mentioned, I do not have the resources to provide citations for every event included in the Timeline, nor do I have control on everything that gets added (I knew about the revision of Galactus' origin in X-Men Adventures, for example, but did not mention it because I considered it to be non-canon). I will add a Sources section in which I'll list both the Marvel Encyclopedia and Marvel.com as sources for the benefit of anyone who wants to investigate the factuality for themselves, and leave it to others to make any other additions needed. Wilfredo Martinez 14:22, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

See, I actually find that profile of Vance Astro hard to read simply because its full of citations and references that disrupt the flow of the setences and narrative. It's one thing when all one simply has to do is link off to another website, or add a footnote explaining something, but for a timeline like this, I frankly think that the idea of marking down a cite for every piece of information, is frickin' ludicrous, and will turn people off from reading it. - Chris McFeely 9th May, 2006

Point taken, Chris. Footnotes may more likely be to the general public's taste rather than embedded references. Still, when dealing with obscure Marvel minutae, it would be good to know what came from where.--StAkAr Karnak 02:09, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Basic reference to where such information comes from would be good so it can be cross-reference, validated, etc.--RedKnight 21:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why shouldn't this be deleted?

Under the title it's at now, it's arguably fancruft and inherently POV, but most especially, Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought, which by necessity this page is. Even if you take Robert Wicks' timeline, it is no more authoritative than any other timeline anyone else decides to put out. It's a timeline of a fictional universe that is never entirely consistent about its references or even the substance of its history. (Note the shrinking ranks of WWII veterans in the Marvel Universe.) On some pages on similar topics in Wikipedia, the facts are unquestioned and internally consistent. Not so here, and even considering that there are very few entries and even those rarely have actual dates on them, that just means it probably needs to be re-written and moved to History of the Marvel Universe, instead of being a "timeline" that's outside the scope of Wikipedia. (Under that title, it just needs a lot of cleanup. Under this title, it doesn't even belong on Wikipedia at all for reasons listed above.) Morgan Wick 23:29, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

See my answer to this same argument at the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Timeline_of_the_DC_Universe Wilfredo Martinez 01:49, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Or don't (it's a mildly insulting diatribe that flirts with WP:NPA and WP:AGF), but see my answer to that there. Morgan Wick 04:12, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Or do and decide by yourself if it was a formal and correct response instead. Wilfredo Martinez 17:07, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1602

I think someone should add the events that took place in the Marvel short-run "1602" to this page as a "17th Century" part.

"1602" was never part of the main Marvel Timeline. However, a mention that it was created by time travel interference in actual 17th century events, and that Uatu (The Watcher) helped preserve it, could certainly be worthy of inclusion. Wilfredo Martinez 01:25, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

1602 is an alternate timeline, although so is 2099.--RedKnight 21:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alternate Universes?

I think there's some inconsistency in this article with the marvel timeline. For example the celestials seeding earth and giving powers to huamns as a form of protection for the seed. This is actually taken from the Earth X storyline and has nothing to do with the main (Earth 616) timeline. Hopefully someone can further rectify this. There are in fact more than 30 over alternate universes so I think if this article tries to chronolog all the existing alternate timelines into one timeline, it would be misleading especially to people who haven't a clue about this.