Talk:Tim Hortons

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1. June 2005 - November 2006

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[edit] Comments on GA review

I got here through the GA nominations page. The article is indeed quite good but some facts need referencing. Also, no decent article should have a separate trivia section. Either the content is relevant and should be added in the proper place or it is irrelevant and should be removed. The Homolka bit, for instance, could go in the canadian icon subsection. If it looks inappropriate there, then it should be deleted. Also, there is no need to be openly critical but the overall tone seemed a bit too close to what someone from the Tim Hortons' PR department would write. For now, I haven't passed or failed the article. Pascal.Tesson 05:59, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Just to follow up on my own comment from yesterday, I was expecting to see some discussion surrounding Dunkin' Donuts. At least in Quebec, it seems that the rise of Tim Hortons completely crushed them. By the way, once the few missing citations are added, I think this could go straight to featured article candidates. Pascal.Tesson 18:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Good Article

This article meets all of the Good Article criteria. It's well-written, thoroughly referenced, and makes good use of images. I'd encourage taking it toward Featured Article status; I don't think it's very far away. Shimeru 19:29, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] donut or doughnut?

Tim Hortons spells it donut. Additionally, donut is more common in Canada. Should the spelling be changed from "doughnut" to "donut"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.180.5.239 (talk) 01:05, 5 December 2006 (UTC).

Please read the archived discussion page. This very question was debated quite recently with no definite consensus either way, and I don't know how much appetite anybody has right now for reopening it so soon. I have no strong feelings either way (I voted "don't really care as long as we're consistent" in the original discussion), but I will say that we're not necessarily bound to use "donut" just because Tim Hortons does; we follow Wikipedia's internal style guidelines, not external corporate style preferences. Bearcat 23:13, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
i do not think donut is the moer common spelling anyway. SECProto 03:58, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
The issue isn't really commonness of the spelling, but whether the article should be in Canadian English, which prefers Doughnut, or Tim Hortons English which prefers Donut. The MOS is surprisingly vague about this ... WilyD 14:32, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree that that is the real issue, but i was just questioning the OP, who considered that donut is the canadian english spelling (saying donut is more common in canada implies that donut is the canadian english spelling.) SECProto 14:40, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
OP? I am under the impression (though I don't have one handy) that the Canadian Oxford Dictionary prefers Doughnut. If it preferred Donut, I'm fairly sure there'd be no contraversy. WilyD 14:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
The Canadian Oxford has doughnut as the main spelling, with donut as a "North American variant". I don't know that it's a question of doughnut being the Canadian spelling, however -- in the archived discussion, Bearcat's google search uncovered plenty of Canadian and American uses of both doughnut and donut. I don't feel terribly strongly about it either way, as long as the article is consistent, sticks with one and we avoid any more back-and-forth unilateral wholesale switches of the spelling. I guess I lean towards doughnut, if I had to pick one, because:

(a) The main Wikipedia article on the generic product spells it doughnut;

(b) The Canadian Oxford appears to prefer the doughnut spelling; and

(c) We are not bound by Tim Hortons' corporate spelling choices, so the fact that their signs say "donut" is not determinative.

But that's just my two cents. Skeezix1000 16:11, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm definitely on the doughtnut side of this argument. I was simply questioning the original poster, the unsigned person, who said "Additionally, donut is more common in Canada." I said that i thought doughnut is more common. we all seem to be agreeing yet still arguing :) SECProto 16:46, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
As Canadian Oxford prefers Doughnut as more common in Canada, without another reference I think we all have to accept it as so, per various policies. That said, we aren't 'required to spell it donut just because it's spelt that way by Tim Hortons, but that certainly is a valid motivation for spelling it that way. The article should be consistant, undoubtedly (again, I hope this is undisputed). I personally think the MOS implies (but does not state explicitly) that donut should be the prefered spelling here, on similar grounds to the which dialect of english? question. WilyD 17:06, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Wily, not sure what you mean by that last sentence. Skeezix1000 17:23, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Per the manual of style articles should use the relevent national variety of english where generic alternatives cannot be found. It seems fairly obvious to me that subnational entities with distinct english dialects should also use that dialect (i.e. the article Happy Valley-Goose Bay should be written in Newfoundland English, not Canadian English. From this I extrapolate as implicit the idea that in general, an article about anything should use that thing's preferred variety of English. From this I conclud this article should use Tim Hortons' preferred spelling of Donut - what I somewhat jokingly have called Tim Hortons English WilyD 18:06, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Store #3000

I added the information for store #3000, but there is no definite source yet - it just opened today. I imagine the source for the other milestone stores will suffice once it's updated by the company. --Varco 19:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

According to their store list of 7-DEC-2006, there are 2,517 stores ___currently operating___ in Canada and 310 in the US for a total of 2,827 stores. One of these might have been store #3000, but again, this doesn't mean that there are 3,000 stores in their chain.

If you would like a copy of this store list, so that you can verify my numbers, please leave a message here with your contact info and I will send it to you.

I am reverting to the previous version. This is not a list of currently operating stores. It is taken directly from their history, which seems to have been removed from the FAQ page since I added the information (their whole site is being revamped, so it isn't very surprising). The list is still available here, and I have updated the source in the article: [1].
The store is #3000. If there's a "citation needed" tag, don't delete it because nobody has yet found a source; that's the point of the tag. I put that there in hopes of a better source than me going and taking a picture of the sign that says "Tim Hortons #3000," but if it is absolutely necessary, I will.
P.S. Please register and sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~)
--Varco 05:46, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Horton-apostrophe-s

Is it "Tim Hortons" or "TIm Horton's"? The article currently uses both. It should stick to one. For what it's worth, the company spells it without the apostrophe. 68.162.117.236 03:27, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Despite the fact that I protest it in daily use due to the grammatical horror, it should probably be "Tim Hortons;" that's the official name of the company. As an interesting side note, the Firefox spell checker suggests "Horton's" in place of "Hortons"--Varco 05:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
This sort of thing particularly annoys me when it's coming from multi-million dollar companies (Wegmans, Caesars Palace, etc). Couldn't they find one guy in marketing that knows how to read and write English? Even so, it's not Wikipedia's job to correct their mistakes. If that's the company's official name, that's what we should call them. --24.58.14.1 23:27, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I think there are legal reasons, e.g. difficulties in trademarking names of real people. — stickguy (:^›)— || talk || 22:26, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History of Hortons

The Tim Horton chain began as a burger joint. It was suggested, by Joyce I believe, to change over to a coffee shop, as the lucrative business of all the steelworkers starting or ending their shifts would pay off better than those going for lunch or dinner there. (the original location on Ottawa street is relatively close to Stelco, Dofacso, and National Steel Car). Can't find a source to back this up currently but I think it's a pretty well known fact by those who live in Hamilton 216.223.145.145 17:53, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Can anyone clear it up but there was a Tim Horton Coffee Shop built in North Bay, Ontario in the late 50s. The First built as a chain was the one mentioned in the article in 1964 in Hamilton. 24.235.216.83 17:58, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Number of stores

Someone keeps adding a site called findbyclick.com as a "reference." There are two problems with this: the site itself does not cite a reliable source... it links to a text file that appears to be compiled by the owners of the site, with a note saying that you can purchase the database of locations from the site. This is the third time somebody has added it and had it reverted. --Varco 04:10, 16 January 2007 (UTC)


The 'text file', mentioned by Varco, and available at http://www.findbyclick.com/stats/data/TimHortons_World_JAN2007.zip has been edited to clearly state its source:

"This database was obtained from Tim Hortons official locator service (http://web.sa.mapquest.com/timhortons) and corrected/enhanced by the FindByClick community of volunteers ( http://www.findbyclick.com/community/ )"

(We also communicate with Tim Hortons directly concerning any omissions / errors we encounter with their database, which eventually gets loaded back into their database.)

Sorry about this omission. I hope that with this correction, our source stands as the most accurate and precise count of Tim Hortons stores currently available.

As well, I'd like to add that www.findbyclick.com/stats provides a number of other statistics, presented in both map and tabular formats. All are derived from sources referenced at the bottom of the page.

 Kmacd 14:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)


I found a few errors in the title of the '# Tim Hortons stores' map I just uploaded. Will replace tomorrow. I didn't roll back as the primary content (ie. shading of provinces / states on the map plus the legend) is correct and as it stands should be an improvement over the old map that was there.

Could someone else comment on this whole issue? I understand the intentions are good, but it seems to border on self-promotion. --Varco 01:59, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I also wonder about the accuracy of the site... I just checked my area and found one of the stores I frequent was not there. Another spot had a store that doesn't exist (and never did). --Varco 14:20, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


I can tell you that the find by click map is wrong. Knowing people inside the company, there are over 200 stores in Halifax Region alone. Revert to the old map that someone had made for the site. The find by click map is not accurate or reliable. --74.104.48.172 02:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What is TDL Group

Well, What is it? You don't say! The legal name of Tim Hortons on that ticker symbol is "Tim Hortons, Inc." I work for a Tim-Horton's location and I do NOT know who or what TDL Group is. We have some packages which say "Made for The TDL Group, Ltd." and "Made for The TDL Group Corp.". A lot of our boxes say things like TDL 31234 for part number, and there is a sign in our lobby which says "bla bla bla operated under license from T.H.D. Donut (Delaware), Inc. The Franchise Information Report is mailed to "The T.H.D. Group, LLC." This companies address is in Dublin, Ohio. I might add, who is T.H.D. Group, LLC and Who is T.H.D. Donut Delaware Inc?

Obviously The TDL Group is important. But WHAT is it? And I dont think that mentioning it without warning in the middle of the article makes this a "Good Article". Johnzw 03:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd put in an explainer on it some time ago that was apparently removed in an article reorganization. I've readded a similar disclaimer. Basically, TDL was Tim's publicly-traded parent company prior to the Wendy's merger. — stickguy (:^›)— || talk || 16:04, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
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