Talk:Tiger
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[edit] Paper tigers - pathetic census
Tiger is endangered in general, and the Indochinese tiger is critically endangered. According to outdated Census, their “current” number is 1200 -1800, which is none but a bitter joke. Face it: the census says there are roughly 200 tigers in Vietnam, but in Vietnam, the last sighting of tiger was about 15 years ago, in early 1990s. No tiger has ever been seen in the wild since then, nor can their track be found. According to Professor Vo Quy, leading VietNam wildlife conservationist of the National university, there are only about 10 - 15 Indochinese tigers in VietNam, occurring in scattered forests, meaning they are isolated and so, doomed to extinct unless some serious conservation project is carried out to protect the remmant tigers and extend its habitat, which is heavily and gradually destroyed to give land for agricultural fields. In Laos, the very same situation occurs, with hardly any tiger has been observed in the wild for many years. Cambodia used to have about 400 tigers, but only in five years between 1998 -2003, more than 200 tigers have been poached, for the value of a dead tiger is too high, and the people in tiger regions are so poor, they have to resort to poaching to feed their families, to say nothing about organized poaching teams. Till now, there is no strict enforcement in place in these countries, and high ranking officials are often bribed to allow for poaching. In Myanmar, the tiger, both Bengal and Indochinese, have been virtually eradicated by poachers and militants, so now, they keep the tiger trade going on by…importing tigers from neighboring countries, namely India, Cambodia, Bhutan, Nepal, Thailand. If this this trend goes on, in only 4-5 years from now, the Indochinese tiger will simply be a distant memory. In Malaysia peninsular, about 600 tigers remain, but again, that’s from the census, just like they say there are about 400 sumatran wild tigers remaining in Indonesia. Another exaggeration! If you have been to Sumatra, u know the situation. Government’s deliberate ignorance of tiger poaching; illegal logging that reduces forest area; human’s animosity toward tigers due to killing livestocks and men, so they kill tigers by every means they can think of: trapping, poisoning, shooting etc; all of that, make the tiger number steadily decline. In a new tiger fact sheet published on the wwf global web site, it reads: “A more recent TRAFFIC report published in 2004 revealed that at least 50 Sumatran tigers were poached per year between 1998 and 2002”. That’s it, that’s poaching alone! Something the report doesn't say is once a mother tiger dies, all of her cubs will reunite her very soon, they have no chance on their own. The Sumatran tigers, numbering at best 100 in the wild now, will die a painful death, just like the Indochinese, if we just sit here and listen to pathetic and exaggerated tiger census. If you have read this book, “Of tiger and men”, Valmik Thapar, an Indian tiger experts, has the same view about the tiger. He says, there are at best 700-800 matured tigers in India, as opposed to about 1800-2000 breeding individuals in the census, 100 tigers in Thailand(opposed to 400-500), and a total of 2000 tigers in the world now. So sorry that I have to agree. Not enough habitats exist anymore in Southeast Asia to support that unusually high no of census tigers, not anymore, to say nothing of constant poaching pressure from time to time. Census tends to give a higher number of paper tigers than the real ones. Why? First, they are largely based on pugmark identification, which often give a higher number than the real one. Second, if they don’t do so, it’s just like admitting their failure to save the tigers. It’s so obvious that once the Indochinese tigers go extinct, it will be the Bengal tiger that receives the death sentence. In fact, it is already starting now, with the Bengal tigers being poached and exported to Myanmar, where they will be exported to the rest of the world, especially Japan, China, including Taiwan, taipei and Hong kong. According to the tiger newsletter I got, also from the wwf global website panda.org, last updated feb 2005: “In recent months there have been several seizures of tiger skins and parts by Indian authorities. WWF was instrumental in aiding some of these seizures. However, at the same time, we learn from news reports that two important Tiger Reserves in India, Sariska and Ranthambore, have lost most of their tigers".
If you don’t belive what I have said above, read this book:
BLACK MARKET: Inside the endangered species trade in Asia.
It just published in 2005, and therefore, would be available now. I highly recommended this one, as it will give you factual accounts of the endangered species trade in the world then, now and tomorrow if we just sit here and believe these animals will somehow be rescued.Once u read it, u will see that the outlook is not as bright as the some whitepapers tell you. In fact, it may be a little too dark. I always knew these animals are brutally treated by human, but I couldn’t imagine it was that brutal until I read this book.
One last thing I want to note: How cruely the tiger are treated, that very same way for all other endangered species, be it asian elephants, rhinos, gaur, pangolin, banteng… Please keep that in mind when you read these lines. So if we are animal lovers and care about the existence and thrive of these magnificent animals, act now to save these species. We together, will make a difference. The easiest yet the most effective thing we can do is to convince people surrounding us to stop using wildlife products. That way, we can stop the demand for wildlife products, and so, the supply.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.220.146.21 (talk) 10:05, 10 March 2007 (UTC).
[edit] tigers
[[do they hunt in grougs.]] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.207.1.1 (talk) 21:48, 1 February 2007 (UTC).
In what?! Dora Nichov 00:28, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Very good eyesight, poor sense of smell Jim Corbett notes that while tigers have excellent eyesight even at night, they do not have a good sense of smell. Quite the opposite of bears. In 'Temple Tiger', Corbett narrates a fight between a tiger and a full grown Himalayan bear.
[edit] vandalism
The Lion, according to the Lion Page, is the second largest cat behind the Tiger. The Tiger, according to the Tiger Page, is the second largest of the cats - at least in the introduction paragraph. The next paragraph says its the largest. ??
People keep vandalizing the page for they think lion is the most powerful big cat! What a nonsense! First, tiger is much bigger than lion, average or largest. Second, even a 120 kg male sumatran tiger will take down a 200 kg male lion in 5 - 10 minutes. Strongest in what way? In one way: strong in number.
- The Lion is the second largest cat found in the wild. The Tiger is the largest. The Liger, which is very, very rarely found in the wild but which does exist in captivity in several places, is larger than either. The Lion page could be changed to reflect this. The second paragraph of the Tiger page says it is the largest feline in the wild, so it is accurate.
- It doesn't matter which is stronger between the Lion and the Tiger. It is simply not the sort of thing that you put in an encyclopedia article. It is childish nonsense. The Elephant article doesn't mention that the Elephant is the "most powerful" land animal - we just note that it is the heaviest, because that is all that need be mentioned. - Atarr 18:09, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Excellent point made by Atarr above. I hope all can agree on avoiding such assessments as 'most powerful cat'. Let's just stick to the facts; weight, length, prey items.
Further vandalism. semi protect.ScMeGr 19:54, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
This page is getting vandalised every day. Please can someone who knows how to take action, take action. ScMeGr 03:36, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Childish nonsense, I don't think so. A lot of books about mammals say the same, including the New encyc. of mammal, 2nd edn by Oxford. And why put lion here? I can see your point then: When u see the word most powerful, you think straightaway of lion and tiger, that's nonsense, not the word powerful. Who the heck gives a damn about lion or whatever? The debate about lion and tiger is a childish stuff, not this. Read the arhive talk page, it has been explained why tiger is the most powerful, in terms of everything you would think of. By the way, the vandalism, I think will be endless until tiger haters satisfy with the contents, and they never will.
[edit] infobox typo
The word 'pink' appears incorrectly at the bottom of the infobox. This could probably be quickly repaired by someone who isn't afraid of breaking the infobox. 69.181.181.156 05:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Liger
Removed this from the intro: (pointy brackets removed)
Since the intro does indeed say that "the tiger is the largest feline species in the world", we don't need the Liger to come in yet. And, of course, the liger isn't a species. Totnesmartin 18:31, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
- No, a liger is a species. Ligers are capable of mating and producing fertile offspring. They're not mules. More technically, if you're trying to argue that a Liger is not a species because it does not have a distinct breeding population, then you are using one particular definition of what a species is to make Ligers a non-factor. This strikes me as a sort of sophistry to get around the fact that Ligers are bigger than Tigers.
- If you say "Tigers are the biggest feline species", most readers will assume this means that the biggest cats in the world are Tigers. As this is not the case, it seems intellectually dishonest to me to say that without qualification. This is an article that gets a lot of traffic and has a lot of casual readers. The technical meaning of what a species is is not on most reader's minds when they read that line. - Atarr 06:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Ligers aren't a species by the dictionary.com definition it must fufill the following. "2. Biology. the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species." It cannot do so becaue it can't even breed with it's own species as the males are infertile and as such it's impossible to create a breeding population. The fact that the females end up fertile hardly helps their case as any occurence of this in the wild would inevitably result in the liger being re-integrated into either the lion population or the tiger population. Your throwing claims of sophistry seems more like an attempt to disguise the fact that Ligers aren't a species which they clearly fail to be.
- Ligers aren't species indeed! No true zoologist will ever say it is. They are hybrids! And even hybrids of two endangered species, pure tigers (which is a true species) are needed to increase their population, not the liger hybrids which polute their gene pool. Peter Maas\talk 10:36, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Largest tigers
As far as I know, the northern indian tigers are the largest tigers in the world, with males frequently exceeding 270 kg when fully grown. The 388 kg bengal tiger killed in north india in 1967 has been confirmed, but there has never been a confirmed Siberian tiger that weighed 384 kg. To make matter worse, Mr Dimitri E. Pikunov, the leading authority on Siberian tiger, firmly stated he had never seen nor heard of any wild siberian tiger exceeding 650 lbs or 295 kg. All of the corectly measured tigers' weights are considerably lighter than those reported in the past, and this is an example of the difference btw hunter's estimate and real measurement. He also said: Despite being slightly taller at the shoulder than those giant tigers from the foothill of the himalaya, the siberian tigers, which reside in a prey-poor habitat, may actually weigh less. With the big fat 423kg found in zoos being a victim of overfeeding, there is not much left to say: the largest wild tigers are the bengal from the north of india and nepal. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.220.147.5 (talk) 09:48, 17 March 2007 (UTC).
A good reference? Yes, You can read the book: Big cats:kingdom of might, which cites examples of over 300 kg bengal tigers killed in Nepal and northern India. And if you have read these 2 books too: Tiger in the snow, and monster of gods, you'll know that the notion of the Siberian being largest are more popular in the ordinary people's world than in that of tiger authorities. Finally: Friends, the weight of the 3 large bengal tigers are as follows: the one in Nepal weghs 705, not 701 pounds, the Indian 700, not 699 pounds. And the largest, 857 pounds, or 388 kg, it's referenced in book. So don't change it back to smaller numbers. And by no means do "most" male bengal tigers weigh btw 200 - 227 kg, as an average is already 220 kg. The popular idea that a bengal tiger exhausting at 258kg is completely pathetic, some zoologists put it up cos' that's the largest bengal tigers they can find, and i highly suspect that they measure them in low food season, and in the south or central india!
Tigers And Elephants Error! What idiot wrote in this: "Adult elephants are too dangerous to tigers to serve as common prey, but conflicts between tuskers and tigers sometimes take place, which often end up with the tuskers being backed off by the big cat." ??? Tigers DO NOT back off elephants! No more than lions back off elephants. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It needs to be removed all together. The elephant is far too much for ANY cat. Dumb Tiger fanboys.
