Talk:Tiberius Iulius Abdes Pantera

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).

[edit] Father of Jesus?

What is the source for these allegations?Bjones 01:40, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Celsus, quoted in Origenes "Contra Celsum":

when she was pregnant she was turned out of doors by the carpenter to whom she had been betrothed, as having been guilty of adultery, and that she bore a child to a certain soldier named Panthera.

"Contra Celsum" quote: http://duke.usask.ca/~niallm/252/Celstop.htm

The link between Celsus' Panthera and Tiberius Iulius Abdes Pantera was made in "La vita di Gesu" by Marcello Craveri (1966)

source: http://members.fortunecity.de/bingium/grabstein.html Collegavanerik 21:30, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

A discussion about Celsus' jewish source of the Panthera story can be found in the Ben Pandera and Ben Stada lemma: Celsus seems to have combined the biographies of Yeshu ben Pandera and Jesus of Nazareth. Even more is discussed on the Yeshu talk page Collegavanerik 21:54, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Collegavanerik 23:59, 4 February 2006 (UTC) I've put this section here:

This connection does not take into account any of the traditional dates for the birth of Jesus nor does it account for the fact the Yeshu was a common Jewish name in jewry and could refer to any person by that name.

The reason is that the citizenship of Abdes after 25 years of service during Emperor Tiberius (19-37) gives a match with adolescence in Syria, and a coincidence with Jesus' birth in 4 BC. The second part is not really adding extra information.

[edit] Cleanup

This article needs to explain the identification between this Pantera and Jesus' supposed father. Surely it's not just because the names are similar?--Cúchullain t/c 01:42, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I stated in the article that the Jesus connection is alledged, that Celsus is the source of the Pantera story, that Craveri first made the connection between the Bingen Pantera and the Celsus Pantera. Tiberius Iulius Abdes Pantera is a suspect who fits the Celsus profile: A roman soldier who was an young adult in Palestina in 4 BC.

That's it, a suspect, nothing more, nothing less. Collegavanerik 20:29, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../t/i/b/Talk%7ETiberius_Iulius_Abdes_Pantera_0aaf.html"