User talk:Thucydides411

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[edit] Hannibal and siege equipment

First of all it is siege and not "seige" equipment. Secondly whoever wrote that Hannibal didn't have the siege equipment to assault Rome lacks some basic knowledge about warfare in this time. Siege equipment was constructed right on the spot. Naturally it could be done much faster if essential (metal)parts were transported with the army, but that accounts for the buildup speed and by no means for the ability to do so (instead of metal leather or ropes could be used, etc., naturally often decreasing efficiency). Hannibal (as Bagnall points out) wasn't able to stay on the same spot for a long time and so he couldn't construct sufficient siege equipment to take well fortified positions, but like all other commanders (for example ALL Roman commanders) of his age he didn't carry the heavy wooden equipment for hundreds of miles from one place to another. So could you kindly correct this or provide a source for any army of this time hauling along giant siege ballistae and siege towers on their march. Greetings Wandalstouring 22:50, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about the spelling error, but if that were the problem, you could have just corrected it. Secondly, you spelled "Greetings" wrong. You might like to look at the section "Aftermath" in the Battle of Cannae article. This is where I got the siege equipment statement from. If that's in error, then you should correct it. --Thucydides411 23:03, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I look like a hypocrite now. :) Well, somehow Carthage has its strange edits day today and I wanted to do sth. else. Wandalstouring 23:07, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cole Mediation

Thanks for joining up and participating in the Juan Cole mediation page. If you haven't already, I'd recommend reading a bit from the (lengthy) Juan Cole talk page and the evolving discussions on the mediation page, just to see what points have and haven't been covered. With respect to mediation, it might be best not to re-open a can of worms that have been brought up and argued before, but instead to focus that very relevant restlessness that you presumably feel (along with several others including myself) in ways that directly answer current and particular problems on the table for debate on the mediation page.

Right now the specific foreground issues appear to be questions of whether Cole's blog is a RS, whether Karsh's "protocols of zion" quote is biographical or notable (or whether it is less), and how exactly to present them in an article without compromising a tone of neutrality if at all possible. Those are easier to nail down than what someone's motives are, so if you disagree with the content those are the conversations I'd suggest you take a look at and contribute to.

Also, the mediation page is supposed to have a moderator setting things in order and looking for a solution, but he's been gone for a few weeks now and many are waiting for his return before posting at all. As it is right now, he will have lots of catching up to do and things to sort out, and likely will be disappointed with how chaotic the page already is in it's present state, all the more reason to stay on topic. Just some points to consider. Abbenm 06:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I am restless about this, because the "Protocols of Zion" attack is so obviously a political hit-job. Cole has a large body of academic work and has been involved in many controversies, but this is not one that is worthy of mention. I am also concerned that Wikipedia is stating a libel against Cole as if it were just another, normal viewpoint on him. If a respected academic like Cole can be accused of anti-semitism and that accusation translated into their encyclopaedia entry, then we might as well label anyone anti-semitic or racist. I do agree that it is possible to include anything that has been written in a WP:RS in a Wikipedia article, but that is besides the point. The question is whether such a scurrilous attack should be included.

It would be good if the mediator showed up at some point, and this process could finally wind down to a conclusion. -Thucydides411 07:30, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

The mediation is not dead, please to not try to force the outcome of it by unilaterally editing it to reflect your POV. Isarig 05:52, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Once again, that article and that specific section is the subject of mediation. Please do not edit it to reflect a certain POV. The Cole response you are planning to add is the subject of lengthy discussions on th mediation page, and you are trying to force the issue. If you do this, you will leave me no choice but to report you. Please reconsider. Isarig 06:21, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Thucydides, I personally agree with your views on the Karsh comments, but it appears the mediation has not been declared dead yet. According to the rules, such as they are, we must wait until the process has come to some sort of conclusion. Wachholder0 19:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] edit warring on Juan Cole

Over the past 4 days you have removed that material 7 times and have been reverted by 3 different editors; the consensus is clearly against you here. I'm going to look into adding Cole's response to make it more balanced. - Merzbow 22:17, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Reported for gaming 3RR. - Merzbow 09:50, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Three revert rule

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you. — Nearly Headless Nick 14:55, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New way? What's this about a new way?

I see you have met the editors who hover over the Juan Cole article. I was thinking that, if you wish to have the offensive and potentially libelous material removed, the best way would be to argue in the mediation and talk pages that it is a blatant violation of WP:BLP. Consider the following:

Writing style Biographies of living people should be written responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone. While a strategy of eventualism may apply to other subject areas, badly written biographies of living persons should be stubbed or deleted. The article should document, in a non-partisan manner, what reliable third party sources have published about the subject and, in some circumstances, what the subject may have published about themselves. The writing style should be neutral, factual, and understated, avoiding both a sympathetic point of view and an advocacy journalism point of view. Remove unsourced or poorly sourced controversial material Editors should remove any controversial material about living persons that is either unsourced, relies upon sources that do not meet standards specified in Wikipedia:Reliable sources, or is a conjectural interpretation of a source. In cases where the information is derogatory and poorly sourced or unsourced, this kind of edit is an exception to the three-revert rule. These principles apply to biographical material about living persons found anywhere in Wikipedia, including user and talk pages. Administrators may enforce the removal of such material with page protection and blocks, even if they have been editing the article themselves. Editors who re-insert the material may be warned and blocked. See the blocking policy and Wikipedia:Libel.

Biased or malicious content Editors should be on the lookout for biased or malicious content in biographies or biographical information. If someone appears to be pushing an agenda or a biased point of view, insist on reliable third-party published sources and a clear demonstration of relevance to the person's notability. The views of critics should be represented if their views are relevant to the subject's notability and are based on reliable sources, and so long as the material is written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to side with the critics' material. Be careful not to give a disproportionate amount of space to critics, to avoid the effect of representing a minority view as if it were the majority one. If the criticism represents the views of a tiny minority, it has no place in the article. Content should be sourced to reliable sources and should be about the subject of the article specifically. Beware of positive or negative claims that rely on association.

I believe the now infamous "Karsh quote" violates these aspects of WP:BLP. I believe you acted in good faith to remove edits you saw as bias & libelous and thus did not violate 3RR. Anyway, these may be helpful points to address if you wish to continue your struggle. Godspeed through Texas, Wachholder0 15:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] You have been blocked

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for violating the three-revert rule on Juan Cole. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by replying here on your talk page, by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} .

Heimstern Läufer 05:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Also Sie sagen, dass irgendwelche drei reverts in 24 Stunden können mir blockieren, ungeachtet wie begründet sie sind? Und was soll mann machen, wenn es drei bestimmte Redakteure gibt, die als Gruppe den gleichen Text wiedereinsetzen werden? Muss mann in diesem Fall alles akzeptieren, was sie im Artikel sehen wünschen, denn das ist soweit die Geschichte dieses Artikels? -Thucydides411 22:25, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

From WP:3RR: "An editor does not have to perform the same revert on a page more than three times to breach this rule; all reverts made by an editor on a particular page within a 24 hour period are counted." But yes, 3RR does not require a block, or even a report; your edit-warring has been harmful because you have show zero willingness to compromise on anything, while I fought against csloat's 3RR a few days ago because he is willing to meet others halfway. - Merzbow 08:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Explain, Merzbow, how adding on new subsections to and expanding existing parts of an already contentious section is compromising. You have already demonstrated that you want to include more desultory material in the Controversies section while removing mitigating material. The entire section is an exercise in POV-pushing. -Thucydides411 16:26, 20 February 2007 (UTC)