Talk:Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
This page has been flagged as being within the scope of WikiProject Thomas. WikiProject Thomas aims to develop and expand Wikipedia's content relating to the TV Series Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends, as well as the original book series The Railway Series.
  Planning and discussion for this project can be found on the Project page. Wikipedians are quite welcome to join us in improving the quality of this article, and others.
TV This article is part of WikiProject Television, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to television programs and related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.

Contents

[edit] Unexplained deletions

I have restored two external links that were deleted without explanation. It is best to explain deletions in the edit summary or here.—Theo (Talk) 22:04, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Flagged for cleanup

An anonymous editor has made some useful additions with unusual spelling and grammar. I lack the time to fix this now. Could some helpful gnome have a go?—Theo (Talk) 07:57, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have flagged this for cleanup again. The article doesn't seem to be entirely certain if it is for the TV show or televesion series, there is very little explanation of the show before the huge table of characters, and things just seem generally cluttered. DirectorStratton 03:22, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Clairvoyance

I've just removed this from the article:

" In 2007, a semi-sequel called Magic Railroad will be released directly to video/DVD (Engines Can Do It)."

It's changed release date and title, and aside from the uncertainty, it lacks a source, and looks two years into the future. --Mel Etitis ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|Μελ I can tell you something right now! The aforementioned"Engines Can Do It" Movie Is FAKE! And until I get some concrete proof, I mean sources, dates, names, engines, I am going to continue to say it's FAKE! (That is all!) Ετητης)]] 14:02, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] an xplained deletion

Deleted this sentence as not being relevent to the TV series.

In 1987, Awdry and his brother George published The Island of Sodor, a book detailing the full history of the railways of Sodor.

apologies for the large number of small edits. -- Doldrums 19:37, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] merge proposal

There are a huge number of articles now on characters who have appeared in one or two episodes only. I feel they would be better merged into just a few articles. Feel free to suggest better names for the merged articles. Which article belongs where should be obvious from the main article. I have not marked any of the proposed articles as there are probably about 50 of them!

I don't think anything else merits an entry beyond an list item. Even many that would fit in the above categories don't need anything more. Thryduulf 23:45, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

On the lists: What do the * signify next to some names? I see no explanation.
I see the fat controller. Does the thin controller not appear in the series?

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 57.66.51.165 (talk • contribs).
The * indicates that the character is from the film only, not the TV series. It did say that somewhere. There is no "thin controller", only a fat one. Thryduulf 22:27, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Mergr proposal sounds good. If there's enough material to support a decent sized article, leave it be, but merge the rest into the lists proposed. I think you could get away woth merging the last two suggestions into a combined list, something like Non-railway/locomotive vehicles. Saberwyn 03:46, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

  • Good idea, I've made the change above. Thryduulf 18:31, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] engines vs. locomotives

Personally I think the way forward is to do a similar thing to the List of Discworld characters articles. Major characters (for example Rincewind, The Luggage) have their own articles, linked from the list. The rest are listed in Minor Discworld characters.

Assuming this was done I would query the particlar choice of name for the article. The use of the term "engine" is depracated in favour of "locomotive". A steam locomotive such as Thomas has two "engines" - each piston and associated valve gear which drives the wheels is an "engine" in its own right. A diesel locomotive contains one or more diesel engines which power the locomotive. Daisy the Diesel Rail-Car for example has two "engines" but is not a locomotive but a multiple unit.

There is also the fact that some characters appear only in The Railway Series, the original books by Rev. W Awdry, some appear only in Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends, the TV Series. Some, but not all, appear in both.

I think any article of this type would need to use the term "characters" because some characters are coaches, trucks, road vehicles, and even people and animals.

Anyone wishing to browse a list of those characters which are locomotives could use Category:Fictional locomotives.

-=# Amos E Wolfe talk #=- 15:01, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merge article name

I posted this on User_talk:Thryduulf but I now see he invited replies here. On some (quite a few?) TTE-related articles you have put a tag to merge into a new article "Railway engines (Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends)". There is a problem. Your title really rather strongly implies the TV series but many of these characters also appear in The Railway Series. The authors of that article seem to have been very careful to list only the characters that appear in the books, not the extras brought in for TV. I suspect the book readers might not like your proposed article title though I expect an acceptable title could be found, maybe a rediect would help. Each character would probably need to be designated according to its provenance (this ought to be case now but it has often been done incorrectly). I've commented to you here because otherwise the discussion would be very distributed! Thincat 14:11, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

I think the problem is there is no ideal title - (The Railway Series) restricts it to the books. I'm not set on the titles I suggested, they were just the best that I coudl come up with - if you can improve on them by all means please do so! Thryduulf 15:31, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
The TV Series has gone in a different direction to the Railway Series. For example, the Awdrys would never have thought of Henry as the tree-loving engine he is in the TV Series. As such, the two should really be kept separate.

I have spent considerable time organising the Railway Engines page (a process which is continuing). You will notice that Railway Series characters have been removed, and character profiles standardised. In my mind, a separate article should be created for Railway Series characters. Gonzerelli 08:21, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Song Lyrics

Someone has entered the lyrics for a number of songs but little else. To no avail, I asked that editor to tidy things up. So I have followed copyright violation procedure. I didn't want to meddle with the back links, but I thought editors of this page might want to delink the following pages. --William Pietri 23:05, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

  • 'Thomas Anthem'
  • 'Every Cloud has a Silver Lining'
  • 'Surprises' Song
  • 'Busy' Song
  • 'Try to do things Better' Song

[edit] Songs List

The songs "That's what friends are for" and "Rules and Regulations" are for the Series 4 category, as that is when they were realeased, but only on a cassette. They have not had videos made for them. -- Skarloey 13:16, 17 January 2006.

[edit] Hello

Hi, I'm new here. By the way, I have noticed many of the 'rolling stock' and 'coaches' articles have been removed from the main page. Why? And could someone put them back please? Another thing, Bertram the Old Warrior's picture is unavailable for viewing being of Tripod's silly logo. Could someone please put it on the page? I don't know how to.--Thomasfan 14:19 6th December 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Conciseness and irrelevance

I have noticed a tendency for this article to wind up consisting almost entirely of lists while not containing very much useful information. These lists tend to simply just be a lot of names, with no explanation as to who they are, what they do, their history or anything. There isn't even consistency of presentation.

There is slightly more information for the locomotives of the NWR (whatever that is), but it's frankly dull technical facts. I would suggest that someone who comes on to this page hoping to find out about, say, Edward would not care that he's a 4-4-0 Larger Seagull, but they might want to know what his character is actually like. I think technical information should be put on the characters' own pages, so that if anyone wants to find out more, they can go there instead of having to wade through a load of information that means nothing to them.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. In my mind, rather than listing on this page, it would be more appropriate for characters to be listed and described on separate pages.

I've been putting considerable time and effort into the Railway engines (Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends) article recently. So rather than listing or even describing the railway characters on this page, link to the Railway Engines page. The same could be done for non-rail characters. Gonzerelli 15:15, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

The NWR stands for 'North Western Railway', or the 'true' railway TTTE and Friends work for. NW was on the toy Rev. Awdry gave to Christopher at Christmas. F3CNW 8:40 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fanon and non-characters

I've noticed that a lot of the information listed on this page seems to be entirely made up. The character of Spencer is never known as "Spencer the Silver Bullet Engine" in any official source. Not is Emily ever officially referred to as "Emily the Beautiful Engine". Emily's coaches are not "0-6-0", as the Whyte system does not apply to rolling stock.

There are also a lot of characters listed who are not actually characters. The Ice Cream Wagons are not characters- they do not speak, they have no faces, no personality is described. You can no more describe them as "characters" than you could describe the track as such.

[edit] Cleanup

Since I last looked at it, the article has drifted off into a bit of a mess again. The English, formatting, and general style need a good overhaul. I've done a (very) little, but much more remains to be done. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:54, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fake information

Though I'm not a member of Wikipedia, I think this needs to be brought to attention. Somebody has been putting false information into the Series 6-10 episode pages, such as adding fake episode titles and characters. They've even made up an entire episode and character list for Series 10, which has yet to premiere. Other people have also been posting fake information all over these pages; in some cases they even repost it as soon as it's been removed. Is there anything that can be done about this?

Sadly, there's not a lot we can do about it, except remove any such information as soon as we see it. There are a number of people dedicated to maintaining Thomas&Friends/RailwaySeries pages, who are quite knowledgeable, however if you see anything that you think is wrong, or can't possibly be right, feel free to contact one of us (myself included), and even delete it yourself (which we will check). Regards, Gonzerelli 12:17, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. I've been keeping regular tabs on the guide so I can remove any false information that's being put up. There's one annoying issue that I think should be brought up; somebody keeps posting fake "US alternative titles" in the Series 7-9 episode guides (such as "Skarloey to the Rescue" for "Skarloey the Brave"). This has been going on for a while now, and though I clear out any such information if I get wind of it, the same person usually comes back and reposts it. It's really starting to get on my nerves, and I'm sure there are others who feel the same way.

I've started to delete fake information(such as fake engines), but my changes were reverted back to the false information by a mod. Is there a way to make it so only mods familiar with this topic can make changes? TOP 05:11, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I've noticed something that seems to be becoming a problem. Someone keeps leaving clumsily-written, badly-worded messages about Thomas appearing on Playhouse Disney. I'm pretty sure the information is false, but they keep doing it over and over again. I fear this may turn into a situation similar to the "Ten Cents and the Golden Tunnel" one currently taking place on the "Tugs" page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.93.21.103 (talk • contribs) .
Can you give an example of a page where this is happening. If editors add false information it will be removed, and in extreme cases the editor concerned can be blocked. Thanks, Gwernol 17:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Sure. It mostly happens on the "Thomas on Television and in Film" section, though earlier today I saw it occur in the trivia section of the sub-article devoted to the Thomas songs. Here are specific links...
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thomas_the_Tank_Engine_and_Friends&direction=prev&oldid=62213919
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thomas_the_Tank_Engine_and_Friends&oldid=61111472
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Thomas_the_Tank_Engine_%26_Friends_Songs&oldid=62216791
(The first two are in the "Thomas on Television and in Film" section; the latter is somewhere in the trivia section)
Thanks, that's very useful. I've added the songs page to my watchlist and will keep an eye out. Unfortunately this seems to be coming from AOL IP addresses, which means its not much use to block the culprit (AOL reassigns IP addresses all the time, so if I block one IP it effects lots of other AOL users and probably doesn't stop the person making the edits). Best, Gwernol 19:52, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
That's good to hear. I'm afraid whoever is behind it was at again this morning, and they've been targetting the narrators section this time. I fear this is going to blow way out of proportion if it carries on.
And no matter what, I delete the info on Thomas & Shining Time Station appearing on Playhouse Disney, and the next second, it has been reverted by one of the vandal's 'little friends'. BigThomasFan 11:10, 28 August 2006

[edit] Proposed merge

I think Duncan's Ghost should probably be included as a character in this article, any thoughts? -- Scott 19:01, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

"Duncan's Ghost" is not worthy of an article or section of any article. I won't go so far as to delete the original page, but there are dozens of characters more worthy of being on the main page than this 'nothing' character. Gonzerelli 11:31, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bricked up in Tunnel

There is a local rumour that the engine (can't remember which one)which was bricked up in a tunnel, is based on Box Tunnel just to the east of Bath, (as rev Audrey lived in Box) but I can't find any mention of this on the Thomas pages or the tunnel page. Any thruth in this? Rod 16:35, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I think this is a reference to the popular "strategic reserve" legend. Basically, the rumour was that when steam engines were being withdrawn from British Railways, a few were secretly kept back in case of nuclear war (steam engines wouldn't be affected by the electromagnetic pulse of an atomic bomb). One of the places suggested for this strategic reserve is Box Tunnel, bricked up on a secret siding within the tunnel. However, there's no strong evidence for this.

Tom

However there was a secret siding at Box tunnel, it wasn't to do with the mythical "strategic reserve". It in fact lead to Burlington, which was the government's now-decommissioned nuclear bunker located next to the tunnel in Corsham, Wiltshire. This was where the central government would move to in case of nuclear war. The idea was that the civil servants would move by train straight from London into the underground station in Burlington. With the coming of ICBMs and the four-minute warning in the 1970s it was obsolete, but wasn't decommissioned and taken off the secret list until the mid-1990s.BaseTurnComplete 11:25, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

That engines name is Henry. --imdanumber1 01:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Official statement from WikiProject Thomas re. some vandalism

Recently, an unregistered user decided to vandalise this page, insulting the Sodor Island Forums (SIF) and its members, asserting that "[SIF] think they own this place".

While it is true that WikiProject Thomas originated at SIF, and core members of WikiProject Thomas are indeed regular members of SIF, by no means do we feel as though we have specific ownership of any page on Wikipedia. We very willingly welcome anyone who wishes to contribute constructively to any pages which fall under WikiProject Thomas' scope.

Having said that, however, superfluous edits, false edits, and edits which do not make a whole lot of sense, which have been made by unregistered users, will be reverted on sight. This is not asserting any kind of ownership on an article, this is maintaining an article's quality. There is a clear difference.

If you have any concerns, feel free to raise them on an article's talk page, or at Wikipedia Talk:WikiProject Thomas.

Gonzerelli 11:59, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello, I find it particularly sad how well this article is maintained, and what great quality and standard it possesses, and yet it receives perhaps the most frequent amount of vandalism I have ever seen on a single article. You really do not deserve this... these vandals do not know when to stop, surely it must get boring for them, because there's always someone monitoring this page to revert damage, and it's nice to see a group of people so devoted to this particular subject. I think amongst yourselves you ought to organise some kind of vandalism block. Keep up the good work. Foxearth 09:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unknown Accident

In one of the Thomas clips on You Tube, there is a still of Henry sitting awkwardly on a bunch of tracks in a forest. Anyone know which episode the still is from? I think it might be from James and the Trouble with Trees.Ohyeh 02:16, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Nah, seen that episode, Henry does not have an accident in that one. --imdanumber1 01:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re-Dubs????

I heard a rumour that the studios are planning to redub seasons 1 and 2 with Michael Angelis' voice over Ringo Starr. Is this true? Jienum 19:11, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Whether this is true or not, seasons 1 and 2 as they have been released and (initially) broadcast will be credited to Ringo Starr. If this redubbing happens, a brief referemce to it on the individual pages of both seasons will suffice. Gonzerelli 21:50, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Season 11

I've noticed that, more than enough, Season 11 has been added to the list of Seasons. Whoever is doing this, I ask that you please stop until we receive an official confirmation from HIT Entertainment that one's being made and when it's being released. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, and we need verifiable information. Thank you. Rusty5 12:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Its a real shame that we have one or two persistent users who seem determined to add fan fiction and other nonsense like this to articles. I have blocked the latest account User:BenK for a month and will extend this to indefinite should he continue doing this with that account or any other. Gwernol 12:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

While I do hope that a Series 11 will materialise, we still don't have any proof. Yet, unregistered users continue to post that Season 11 will be coming in 2007. I've heard from a friend that HIT confirmed at least two more seasons after 2005's Series 9, and we have gained trust in the company with the promised return of Sir Handle in Series 10, but we can't verify this like we did with Season 10. At least wait until next year to write about Series 11, or before we create a page for it. None of us members of Wikiproject Thomas want to put up with the half-year of vandalism on the Season 10 page again. Thank you. Rusty5 22:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

News! I recently received official confirmation from HIT that more episodes will be made, and that "Thomas & Friends" won't end with Series 10. An 11th series will materialise, but they haven't told me if it will be in 2007, or in a couple years. Rusty5 02:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Someone e-mailed HIT about a season 11. HIT has confirmed that there will be a season 11. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jexerg (talk • contribs).

I'll say this once more, hopefully for the last time...
A PERSONAL E-MAIL IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE!!!!!!! Therefore, it CANNOT and WILL NOT be added until something concrete comes to light!
Gonzerelli 03:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Not to be rude, but if it's from HIT Entertainment themselves, It'd most likely be reliable. Besides, how did we find out about Series 10? We had an article up for it around this time last year. They didn't even mention new episodes to the public until that press release, so how did we confirm Season 10 half a year earlier? I won't create an article for Season 11 yet, after all the vandalism we received with Season 10, but Thomas isn't the kind of series that spontaneously ends... Rusty5 17:28, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thomas and Autism

The National Autistic Society published a report a few years ago which detailed the 'special relationship' between many children with autism and Thomas the Tank Engine. You can read the report here and more information here (plenty more on Google too, if you search for "Thomas the Tank Engine" autism). Does anyone think this would be an appropriate/relevant topic for a new section within this article? Matt Eason 00:52, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Strong Support. The article also includes a link to a PDF of the original report. This sort of coverage is EXACTLY what we need to support and expand articles in WP.
(Incidentally, these findings were also mentioned in the Radio Times in 2006. I have the snippets in my garage somewhere, so I'll need to add them as a supporting reference.)
EdJogg 09:26, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subanthropomorphism

What is subanthropomorphism as compared to anthropomorphism? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.98.224.153 (talk) 17:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

I'm guessing it has something to do with the only human-like parts of the engines are the faces and the common emotions. After all, they don't have arms and legs... Rusty5 23:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Take Along Article deletion

Why is the take along article gone

[edit] Delete this sentence

I feel we should delete this sentence:

"The use of a narrator removes the need to make characters' mouths move when they speak."

In my opinion, this sentence implies that if individual voices were used, the characters' mouths would have to move and that having a narrator removes this problem. But take for instance "TUGS"; all of the characters had specific, individual voices and a narrator. However, their mouths didn't move. This idea contradicts the basis of shows like "Bob the Builder" (in the case of the machines), Dig and Dug, and puppet shows in which the mouths of the puppets are just a line or a piece of yard or string. There are even individual voices in the Japanese versions of TTTE, and it's the British imaging.

In other words, this sentence presents a fact that the rules of most other television shows either contradict or don't apply. Perhaps, we could say something like this:

"The episodes are all written in a storybook style, rather than scripted drama material. Because of this format a narrator provides both the storytelling and the voices for the characters. Individual voices done by voice actors would make the story format seem choppy and disorganized."Ohyeh 14:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../t/h/o/Talk%7EThomas_the_Tank_Engine_and_Friends_4abc.html"