Talk:Thomas Carlyle

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where do you want to put him in the canon? under essayist? near montaigne?

BTW a fine read! I've heard of his Revolution but never read it. Is it available at Gutenberg?

you're doing great work here! set up a user account so we 'know' who you are! --dgd

• The Gutenberg link is in the article. -- Jmabel 23:47, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

• You should note that Emerson also published Sartor Resartus in America at his own expense, and only broke even by the third printing.--Case 22:59, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 "The dismal science" 2 Image confusion 3 Dubious link 4 cleanup 5 Opinion sought 6 Carlyle the postmodernist? 7 I'd really like to see a citation 8 Seinfeld 9 Contributors to The French Revolution?

[edit] "The dismal science"

• He called Economics "The dismal science". I'm trying to work out where to add that factoid to the article. See http://ideas.repec.org/p/fth/melbec/715.html for more. Edward 10:20, 2005 Apr 2 (UTC)
  • Probably merits adding a paragraph or two that will elucidate the context in which he said it. The quotation is famous enough (and subtle enough in its significance) to merit more than just a mention in a "quotations" section. -- Jmabel | Talk 00:44, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image confusion

I removed the second image from the article, because according to the source, it actually shows Robert Owen rather than Carlyle (compare [1]). The correct image is evidently [2]. Wmahan. 03:30, 2005 Apr 4 (UTC)

This is now fixed, thanks to the great Magnus Manske. Wmahan. 22:55, 2005 Apr 7 (UTC)

[edit] Dubious link

I think this link Carlyle's French Revolution in relation to 20th Century American economics should be dropped. Not very informative about Carlyle, really it's just one not-at-all-obviously-expert person's remarks. Unless someone explains in the next 24 hours or so why this should be kept, I will feel free to delete. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:05, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

• Given the lack of a response, I am removing it. -- Jmabel | Talk 00:47, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] cleanup

I merged in the alternate spelling article, but didn't update the spelling, nor attempt a cleanup of the text (two sections are wholesale from the other article) other than the 1st paragraph. Can someone help? Tedernst 20:52, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

I've dealt with the spelling and some other minor issues, but so far haven't taken on the heavy lifting of a proper merge. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:54, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Opinion sought

I'd be interested in a third opinion on these recent anonymous edits. I'm inclined against them, but it would just be my opinion against the anonymous editor's. Would someone else please weigh in?-- Jmabel | Talk 06:56, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Well,I've reverted them. They just seemed designed to denigrate him. Who are these 'adherents' who have 'tried' to link him to Nietzsche? Who has been reduced to 'despair'? Why say his role in introducing German thought was 'secondary'? Paul B 08:22, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Carlyle the postmodernist?

Is it fair to count Carlyle a postmodernist? What basis is there for such a categorization?

The term is mentioned in the article, but only in the sense that he "anticipated" aspects of the movement. He shuldn't be in the category. Paul B 06:35, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I'd really like to see a citation

Recently added anonymously (I've copy edited, this is after my copy edits):

William Dalrymple, author of White Mughals, has mentioned that Carlyle was in love with a princess of Indian origin, Kitty Kirkpatrick, before his marriage to Jane Welsh. It has also been mentioned that the feeling was mutual, but social circumstances made the marriage impossible. In fact, the author links the lead characters of Sartor Resartus with real-life characters, especially Kitty Kirkpatrick.

This really begs for a citation. It doesn't even say whether Dalrymple makes this claim in White Mughals or elsewhere. - Jmabel | Talk 03:48, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

It's pretty well established. Kitty was half indian. She appears as Blumine in Sartor. Froude is the source for the identification, which is generally accepted. Paul B 12:29, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Seinfeld

I made a section for it, thanks. I see NO reason why that should not be there. Look at the quote itself -- why should the article belong in only the 19th century?

Zweifel 10:42, 3 October 2006 (UTC) -- who has read Carlyle and Shiller and Goethe, much in the original German. THANK YOU.

Apart from a few "quotations" from Teufelsdroch, I wasn't aware that Carlyle wrote anything in German. The article does not restrict itself to the 19th C, but the Seinfeld quotation tells us nothing of any value as far as I can see. Carlyle's words are not even quoted accurately. Paul B 11:01, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey Man. Well, I meant Shiller and Goethe with the German (I was missing a comma), but whatever. The article is overwhelmingly 19th century: the exceptions are Carlyle talking about Cromwell and Frederick the Great. Beyond that, there are mentions of Nazism, existentialism, and postmodernism. That's pretty skimpy.

However, I will grant you the fact that the quote looks out of place. So let's make a deal. You find the actual quote from Carlyle and maybe give it a little bit of context, and I'll move that section over to the Wikipedia article on that very episode, and put a "see also" link at the bottom of the page.

Sound good? Let me know. Zweifel 22:19, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Carlyle's words have already been corrected. I also corrected the spelling of Carlyle's name. I think Carlyle's influence on Hilter existentialism and postmodernism is slightly more important than a very brief mention on Sienfeld - which really could have been a quotation from anyone to make the same point. Paul B 09:20, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I still see no reason this should be here at all. Why would a person looking up Carlyle be likely to care that there was a passing, ephemeral reference to him on a situation comedy? - Jmabel | Talk 22:30, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure that a consensus was reached to remove all mention of Seinfeld. I personally did find it of interest that he was mentioned on Seinfeld. I back Zweifel's suggestion above. roundhouse 11:10, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

OK,you want context. Here's context. The original quotation is "Whoso belongs only to his own age, and reverences only its gilt Popinjays or smoot-smeared Mumbojumbos, must needs die with it." It's from Carlyle's two-part review of Croker's edition of Boswell's Life of Johnson, 1831. The review was part of a discussion of the nature of biography as a literary art, and in particular a discussion of the extent to which the biographer should also be an historian and commentator on the time being written about. Carlyle sees Boswell himself as the epitome of a man of his own time and something of a popinjay, but one who was redeemed by his engagement with Johnson, a writer who combined a relish of contemporary life with a classical ideology that nominally rejected the importance of history as detailed lived experience, seeking only to extract generalised moral lessons. The comment is really about how they needed each other because through Johnson Boswell was able to both see his own age and see beyond it. The sentence itself, with its deliberate coinage of strange phrases used in unusual ways was known as "Carlylese", a notoriously eccentric style of writing invented by Carlyle and designed to disconcert the reader by sounding both archaic and weirdly new at the same time - mirroring his emphasis on the interpenetration of the past, present and future (the "conflux of eternities" as he calls it) to stress the very point being made about seeing through ones own time. Paul B 13:24, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I personally found the reference to Seinfeld on this page somewhat amusing. I think with some context, I'm against its removal. --Todeswalzer | Talk 16:59, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contributors to The French Revolution?

I've recently started to make some serious expansions to the formerly-very-brief stub on Carlyle's The French Revolution: A History. Currently, I'm the only person working on the article, so if anyone else here is familiar with the work, your help would be much appreciated! --Todeswalzer | Talk 21:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)