Talk:Thenmuli Rajaratnam

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Contents 1 Old discussion before 2007 1.1 Heavy POV 2 Rape Victim 3 Was Thenmuli a terrorist? 4 Refactored 5 Archiving

[edit] Old discussion before 2007

Thenmuli Rajartnam Was a 17 year old suicide bomber?

Yes that is a child not a woman216.95.23.252

You can say that, but what constitutes a child? --Sharz 01:13, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Please Stop posting slander and non-npov comments on this page, I'll just come back and revert it, I worked hard on this article, Only make changes for the better of the article not to pupetuate your own veiws--Sharz 03:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heavy POV

Am reverting the article to the state where it was to a few days ago. There seems to have been hevay POV pushing in the last few days. Please discuss in the talk page if there is any issue Chancemill 08:10, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rape Victim

Ref: http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:2FRZAMoRhdMJ:www.isiswomen.org/wia/wia102/femmilitant.htm+ipkf+rape&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=18&gl=lk&ie=UTF-8 SAR23 17:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

If actually she was a rape victim, what LTTE should do is taking her in front of the justice and punish the rapers. Unfortunately the so called Tamil national leader brainwashed and used that victim of war to win his personal vendetta against Rajiv. According to the Thenmuli Rajaratnam article she was just 17 when blew up her self. This is just enough to prove that the so called representers of the Tamil nation uses the victims of war and Tamil children to win their so called liberation struggle while Tamil national leader's son and the daughter studying in UK, politiacl leader's daughter studying in Norway and the LTTEs police cheif's daughter studying in Canada. [off-topic personal stuff removed] --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ ^{walkie-talkie} 19:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

PS: If actually she was raped by IPKF, I'm on her side since she was a Sri Lankan. But now, no chance, due to the bomb attack. --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ ^{walkie-talkie} 19:58, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[...] Was Thenmuli Rajaratnam raped, and if so or not, should this be included in the article?

Firstly, many reliable sources so advocate that the IPKF raped her and thusly in retaliation she wished to kill the Indian Prime Minister. However, even if this is not proven, it is still intergral in the myth of Dhanu and thusly should be included in the article. [off-topic personal stuff removed] --Sharz 21:55, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Was she raped or not? Who knows, but we should include it in the article that the LTTE claims she was raped. I don't think anyone can conclusively say yes or no to that question, considering the IPKF controlled area was pretty lawless and they did commit numerous human rights violations. So basically, it should say the LTTE claims she was raped. [off-topic personal stuff removed] --snowolfD4^{( talk / @ )} 22:17, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

PLease read the last section Dhanu thoroughly, it contains strong referances to the LTTE as well as states "alledged rape". What more do you want? --Sharz 13:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Reference? where? I dont see a single reference in that section.

So either provide a reliable ref which says for certian she was raped, without ambiguity, or I'll change the text as necessary--snowolfD4^{( talk / @ )} 20:57, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

It's alright children, I'll read it for you.

Dhanu, a Hindu has been posthumously glorified by LTTE, to represent the plight of the Tamil Sri Lankans at the hands of Sri Lankan and Indian soldiers during the Sri Lankan civil war. Her story is frequently used among Tamils and to advertise to the women population to join the Tamil Tigers. (Almost 30% of the Tamil Tigers are female Cadre). Her alleged rape is seen to be an offence to the Tamil people as a whole and a source of passion for the Tamil Tiger Organisation.

What are you proposed changes?--Sharz 04:39, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Was Thenmuli a terrorist?

I, in this regard advocate that she was an assasin, that killed the Indian Prime Minister using an explosive suicide vest. —This is part of a comment by Sharz (of 21:55, 2 March 2007 (UTC)).

Read the definition of a terrorist.

Most definitions of terrorism include only those acts which are: intended to create fear or "terror," are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a "madman" attack), and deliberately target "non-combatants".

In this case was it

• intended to create fear? Yes
• perpeterated for an ideological goal? check
• deliberately target non-combatants? and yes again

It doesn't matter whether she was raped or not, if you indiscriminately kill innocent civilians you ARE a terrorist. Period. —This is part of a comment by Snowolfd4 (of 22:17, 2 March 2007 (UTC)).

Intended to create fear? How so, seems to me it was intended to blow the Prime Minister of India to smitherines, don't you? Perpererated for an ideological goal? Please provide referance/s of Thenmuli Rajaratnam setting out a list of demands or an ultimatum like "Free the Tamil Country or I'll chargrill Rajiv Ghandi" to back up your point. Deliberately targetted non-combatants: Sure did, however, attacking the chain of command is not entirely civilian, it's a bit sketchy. --Sharz 13:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry but this is a one of the silliest things I've seen written on a wikipedia talk page. It's just ridiculous, that's all I have to say. Read what you wrote a few times, have a good think about it, and then write something that makes sense and I'll reply to that. --snowolfD4^{( talk / @ )} 21:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Note to other editors: I had removed the above post since I regarded it a personal attack (not directed at me), and it does not contribute constructively to the conversation. The original poster insists on keeping it there, so be it. May others judge if it makes the poster look good.

Please, other editors, let's not go down that path. Let's not get provoked by name calling; remain reasonable and contribute constructively, so that we can reach consensus about this article. Thank you. — Sebastian 02:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Since this discussion is about the question if she should be included in category:Terrorists, the relevant criteria are not in the article Terrorist, but defined in the category. There is naturally a difference since e.g. state terrorists are in their own category.

Most of the definition for a terrorist is the same as that for an assassin; I therefore asked for clarification on category talk:Terrorists. This is a general question, not just specific to Thenmuli or LTTE; I would like to see what comes out of that discussion first. — Sebastian 22:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Attacking the hierarchy of the chain of command for his responsibility in the past is not a civilian target. Rajive Ghandhi acted almost as the Commander of Chief of the Indian Army, though in India it was with constitutionally weak Indian President.SAR23 14:58, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Chain of command? Do you know Rajiv Ghandi wasn't Prime Minister when he was killed? He was pretty much an ordinary citizen campaigning in an election. And what about the 16 others who died? Were they part of the "chain of command" as well? --snowolfD4^{( talk / @ )} 17:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

People can't do whatever they want when they are in office and then once they lose their positions can't claim they are innocents (because at that time they are ordinary citizens). Still they are liable for all their past actions. Rajive Ghandi's time IPKF involved various chaotic operations and human rights violations. She targetted Rajive Ghandi only, not the civilians.SAR23 16:42, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

People are always liable for any collateral damage they bring about. --Sharz 06:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Refactored

I just refactored the discussion here because I feel it is better if the rape discussion is discussed independently of the terrorist allegation. This does of course not mean that such a connection can not be made; I am aware that SAR23 introduced the rape argument in order to strengthen the point that she was not a terrorist, but since SAR23 didn't write so explicitly there was luckily no problem with refactoring. I did remove the words "There seems to be a number of issues relating to this article" because they became superfluous. I tried to be neutral; if I made any mistakes please let me know below. — Sebastian 01:57, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Archiving

There is alot of dead convo with extremely confusing formatting on this talk page. I will archive it within 36 hours if no objections are raised.--Sharz 06:42, 9 March 2007 (UTC)