Talk:Theft
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[edit] Theft and other legal matters
There's more to theft than legal matters, likewise there's more to murder than legal aspects... Why those pages involving legal terms and events or circumstances only care about the legal aspect? I don't care what frigging nugging linning things are done with thieves in the US or anywhere... All I want is to read something about theft throughout the ages, categories and kinds of theft and such non-legal aspects of theft... Why must we be content with this content? Really... If someone could enrich these articles with interesting information... That would be great...
[edit] Discussion
we need a helpful discussion of theft; legal and psychological aspects for instance
- And the article, and especially the links, needs to be cleaned up.
[edit] Theft Photo
Is that bike theft photo really necessary? It is kinda funny, but doesn't fit well the more serious and legal aspects of the whole article. It gives the article a rather silly look. I'm sure we can find a more interesting photo. I'm removing it for now. What do you guys think about it?
- I think a substantial number of the pictures included in Wiki are redundant or inappropriate but they add to the look and feel of the project. Theft of biccycles is actually a specific offence under s12 Theft Act 1968 so it is not completely wrong. David91 01:43, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Petty vs. grand theft
The article should at least provide a summery of the differences petty vs. grand theft as is done in U.S. law. --Cab88 03:04, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
"Grand theft generally consists of the theft of something of value over $400 (it can be money, labor or property),[2] while petty theft is the default category for all other thefts.[3] Both are felonies, but grand theft is punishable by a year in jail or prison,[4] while petty theft is punishable by a fine or six months in jail.[5]"
The definition of Felony is any crime which is punishable by a year and a day in jail or more. That is what makes grand theft punishable - it's actually a year and a day - and what makes petty theft not a felony, because it's only 6 months. I don't want to change this outright though...
[edit] Blank space
Can anything be done about the huge blank space at the beginning of this article?
A criminal act in which property belonging to another is taken without that person's consent. The term theft is sometimes used synonymously with larceny. Theft, however, is actually a broader term, encompassing many forms of deceitful taking of property, including swindling, embezzlement, and false pretenses. Some states categorize all these offenses under a single statutory crime of theft.
[edit] Still unclear
If someone comes from some remote areas of the Amazon and has abousutely no idea what money is and how it works, they take something from the store without paying because he/she does not know they have to pay. Does that count as theft?
- Presumably, such a person would not be dishonest and so would not be guilty of theft. But to travel from the Amazon would have required money and some familiarity with the concept of purchasing necessities on the way like food and drinks, so such a defence is unlikely to be credible. David91 01:00, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
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- If the person has different idea of "personal possession" and believe that he can take it because it's there, it can be argued that he is not committing a theft. This probably won't be accepted anyway in many courts, but some cultures have a very low and different threshold of personal possession. For example in a certain culture, if you invite someone to your property, the invited person may do whatever he wants to do. Let's say that you have a very expensive wine stored in your refrigerator. A person from that culture will drink it without asking because that's the their definition of "hospitality". This is true even if you told him to not to drink it because on inviting, the "possession" is now actually handed over, so when he decides to drink, he has no moral conflict in ignoring your request. Following this logic, another person from same culture may appropriate anything he can get hand on and take it back home, of course without asking. This is usually a theft, but he does not feel he is stealing, because he considers this as a kind of "gift". If you prevent this person from taking anything, he will actually be angry from being "mistreated". You probably won't believe this, but this culture actually exist. --Revth 05:38, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "Wrongful taking"
Shouldn't the intro to this article say something like "unlawful taking" or something else less biased? An encyclopedia should never label anything as "wrong", should it?
Right.
[edit] Section about misuse of the term?
IP freaks keep calling copyright infringement/filesharing/cracking "theft", although these don't involve taking something away from somebody else ("permanently deprive the other of it"). There should be a section that addresses this misunderstanding.--84.188.156.54 12:36, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Actually, this usage goes back a long way. E.g., on a record from 1960 on the Lobachevsky track, Tom Lehrer says something like "... and I thought it would be interesting to steal [I mean] adapt this idea...". A google search on "steal idea" reveals thousands of hits, with many hits outside the IP proponent's camp. So perhaps there should be a paragraph about the common usage of stealing as in "steal an idea", though this usage does not meet the criteria of removing any property, as ideas cannot be removed from their owner. I presume the "steal of idea" usage is where the IP proponents derives their usage of stealing music etc, so that usage could be listed here, if desired.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Esben (talk • contribs).
- There's several mentions of the use/misuse of the term "theft" or "stealing" as pertaining to copyright infringment/bootlegging/piracy elsewhere on WP already. The opening paragraphs of copyright infringement mentions it, and has links to other articles such as Dowling v. United States, a 1985 court case which found that copyright infringement could not be equated to theft. Of course, this is a relatively old case that doesn't reflect changing attitudes, what with the advent of the internet, MP3, peer-to-peer file sharing and so on. I'm no expert on legal matters, nor have I kept a close watch on how more recent copyright infringement cases have turned out, but I do think that a section about the common use of the word(s) outside of their legal definition would be a worthwhile addition to this article. ~Matticus TC 15:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Felony?
In the "Theft in the U.S." Section, it says that both petty and grand theft are classified as felonies, yet it says the punishment for petty theft is only six months in jail. Isn't the defintion of a felony a crime that lands it perpetrator in jail for a year or more? Pogo 17:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
