Talk:Thebee/Archiv2

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Archived Talks page 29 Oct 2006

These are for you... since you started all these discussions on the talk pages of articles. Pete K 13:49, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

following sections got moved from rudolf steiner talk page trueblood 10:54, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

i add that the your in the heading includes pete k. trueblood 17:21, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Just as a reflection: Your endless row of personal insults and personal attacks point to that you don't apply rational argumentation more than spotwise. A minute ago, not now any more, but a minute ago, when I read you latest insult, it made me think: At some time, I'll punch you somewhere for your endless row of personal attacks and insults if we meet. And I'm a peaceful man. The last time I fought with someone was when I - once - in school fought with someone in grade nine. And I'm a Conscientious objector. Just to give some perspective on it. Thebee 20:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

That's a PERSONAL THREAT Sune. Do you want to retract it and apologize - or shall we have the administrators have a look at it? You've crossed the line AGAIN. This one may get you booted off of here. Please think carefully before threatening personal violence. For the record, I think you would quickly change your mind, and probably have to change your underwear, if you saw me in person - but that's not the point. Retract the statement above or it goes to the mods. Pete K 02:44, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

On "Instead it argued, like Steiner, for the emancipation, integration and assimilation of Jewry into human culture in general." you comment:

"Cool! The Jews could join the world of humans. How nice."

"... human culture in general" meant "Human culture not bound to any specific national identity", not your twisted description "the world of humans". The fertilization of all sorts of cultures by people of Jewish origin and/or faith, contributing to their development, has also developed since the beginning of the Diaspora, not least the last century of all sorts of anthroposophically based activities world wide, including the U.S. Thebee 01:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Great - now you characterize Jews as fertilizer. You should quit while you're way behind. Pete K 02:44, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

You describe what I write above on my feeling about your endless row of personal insults and personal attacks for the spur of a moment as a personal threat to you. It isn't. I just formulated my personal feeling for a short moment about them, and told that I did not have it anymore the minute after, when I wrote about it, and that I of course will not implement it. As I told, I'm a peaceful person, and a conscientious objector (last year it made me get a 10-year VISA to the US without even applying for it for that period).

On this you comment: "I think you would quickly change your mind, and probably have to change your underwear, if you saw me in person". I assume that means that you think I'd wet my pants from just seeing you. Do you often tell that to other people or make that impression on them? I don't recall someone has ever had that effect on me, and doubt you would, but will write to someone who knows you and ask if you look as mean as you say you do.

As for your endless row of personal insults and personal attacks (including a number of personal libel, and an instance of unsubstantiated slander, that you have written twice that you will not substantiate as I asked you to, unless I sue you), after I got tired of a number of them, asked an admin to look at them and you were warned about continuing them a first time, also others have asked you to discontinue your agressive editing style here, one descibing it as way out of line here at Wikipedia (to another, I think, you answered "kiss my ass"). I'm working at documenting the ones you've added since your first warning, and will ask some admin to tell his or her view of them. Cheers, Thebee 08:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

"You describe what I write above on my feeling about your endless row of personal insults and personal attacks for the spur of a moment as a personal threat to you. It isn't. I just formulated my personal feeling for a short moment about them, and told that I did not have it anymore the minute after, when I wrote about it, and that I of course will not implement it. As I told, I'm a peaceful person, and a conscientious objector (last year it made me get a 10-year VISA to the US without even applying for it for that period)." Hey, Mr. Pacifist, it was a threat of personal violence. Retract it and apologize.

"On this you comment: "I think you would quickly change your mind, and probably have to change your underwear, if you saw me in person". I assume that means that you think I'd wet my pants from just seeing you. Do you often tell that to other people or make that impression on them? I don't recall someone has ever had that effect on me, and doubt you would, but will write to someone who knows you and ask if you look as mean as you say you do." Let's just say - I've seen YOUR picture... LOL! That you want to size me up physically indicates that you might be considering trying to make good on your threat of violence. Very smart Sune.

"As for your endless row of personal insults and personal attacks (including a number of personal libel, and an instance of unsubstantiated slander, that you have written twice that you will not substantiate as I asked you to, unless I sue you), after I got tired of a number of them, asked an admin to look at them and you were warned about continuing them a first time, also others have asked you to discontinue your agressive editing style here, one descibing it as way out of line here at Wikipedia (to another, I think, you answered "kiss my ass"). I'm working at documenting the ones you've added since your first warning, and will ask some admin to tell his or her view of them." Knock yourself out. You've already destroyed your credibility here - and, as with the "kiss my ass" comment above, you have taken almost everything I have said out of context - much of the context is that you have brought it on yourself. So go for it. I always tell the truth, and I always stand behind what I say. And you cannot change this by whining about it. I'm still waiting for my apology. Pete K 13:42, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

On "Let's just say - I've seen YOUR picture... LOL! That you want to size me up physically indicates that you might be considering trying to make good on your threat of violence." I've described what I wrote and why it was not a threat, just an expression of my personal feeling for the spur of a moment about your endless row of personal insults and attacks.

Am I to understand what you write, and I quote, as a threat, that if I do not apologize for my personal feelings about your repeated insults and personal attacks, you'll beat me up, as you've noticed that you are bigger than me? Thebee 15:53, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Is the example above typical of how you misinterpret EVERYTHING you read? Here's what I wrote: "That's a PERSONAL THREAT Sune. Do you want to retract it and apologize - or shall we have the administrators have a look at it? You've crossed the line AGAIN. This one may get you booted off of here. Please think carefully before threatening personal violence." What I've said above, about seeing your picture, is that I don't really feel personally threatened physically by you, based on your picture. But, again, since you have made a personal threat of physical violence, and have indicated that you are in contact with people who know who I am, I can now draw from this that you could be insinuating that you will have someone ELSE make good on your threat. I guess it's time for the administrators to have a look at this. Pete K 16:05, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

"... since you have made a personal threat of physical violence, and have indicated that you are in contact with people who know who I am, I can now draw from this that you could be insinuating that you will have someone ELSE make good on your threat." Your fantasy seems to be running wild. As you know, I live in Sweden, not the Wild West or Chicago. Sweden is a peaceful country, possibly somewhat like Canada. The one I referred to was a personal friend of yours, that I met once last year when visiting the U.S., one of your Waldorf friends. He seemed to care for you. I doubt he'd ever think of hurting you. The only thing I've thought of is to write and ask him if you really look as mean as you indicate that you do. And as I've told, I'm a peaceful person, and in my youth refused to do military service as a conscientious objector. I don't beat people up, not even when I last time fought with someone, 40 years ago, at school, and never asked anyone else to do it for me either. All your personal insults and personal attacks just make me feel sick in between. That's what I told you. On my personal Talks page, you comment on this: "Deal with it!" Thebee 16:31, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's out of my hands now Sune. As I'm sure you know, I've reported you to the administrators. You still haven't retracted your statement, nor have you apologized for making it. So, I take it, your statement stands. Where you live has nothing to do with your threat of personal physical violence - as you have, I am sure, contacts with lots of people who dislike me as well - people at my kid's school. So, in light of your unwillingness to retract your statement - and to offer an apology, I think it's best if the administrators here have a look at your bizarre behavior here and make a determination for themselves. Pete K 16:39, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

"Where you live has nothing to do with your threat of personal physical violence - as you have, I am sure, contacts with lots of people who dislike me as well - people at my kid's school."

You think I know people at your kids school, and would think of writing to them to ask them to beat you up?!! You need a beer and a talk with someone. Thebee 16:58, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

You forget I've been in Waldorf for 15+ years Sune. I've been threatened by Waldorf people many times before - so your threats are not uncommon. And yes, I believe you are capable of this. You just finished writing here that you want to punch me - and that you have made (or will make) inquiries about my physical size. Even if you don't make good on these threats, they are intended to intimidate me - and they clearly violate Wikipedia policy. You should retract them and apologize. Pete K 17:10, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe I shall write to one of the female administrators at your school, after all, ask her to hide behind a door when she sees you coming, and then jump out and say BUUH! when you pass ...

NOW, you have an intimidating threat to complain about! And I COMPLETELY stand behind that. Run off now to the Admin Notice Board ... Thebee 18:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Nice try - but your original threat was a threat of personal and physical volence and it was serious. Trying to play it off as some harmless joke is not going to work with me. You should retract your threat and apologize. Pete K 18:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

The admin answering your your notice here on the Admin Notice Board does not seem to agree with you, and has answered:

• Its seems you have a long history with this user and your comments leading up to this would also be considered personal attacks. I suggest you participate in the mediation and try to be more civil in the future. Shell babelfish 16:24, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

A true optimist. Thebee 18:21, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

That's OK - there are other administrators here who will see the seriousness of threats of violence - and now they have a record of your attack and my registered complaint. It doesn't change the fact that you should retract your threat and apologize - if for no other reason than to try to convince people who are reading your material that you aren't a lunatic. Pete K 18:30, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

guys, since this is the talk page to discuss improvements for the steiner article, could you have this little talk in a more private location? trueblood 19:16, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I quite agree with you, trueblood.

Pete, could you not collect all the further personal attacks and insults that refer to me and that you feel you want to make on either your or my personal Talks page in the future, so I don't have to look for them for a further notice to an admin about them? Thanks, Thebee 19:43, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

PeteK: "... you should retract your threat and apologize - if for no other reason than to try to convince people who are reading your material that you aren't a lunatic"

That would be another personal attack on your long list. I'll make a note about it and add it to the list at the top, after all the other ones since 1 Sept, still lacking documentation there. Babelfish was a true optimist. Who'd have guessed. Thebee 20:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for changing the header here Trueblood. It really more accurately reflects what has transpired here. My apologies for my part in this. Sune, why don't we move this discussion to your talk page. Pete K 20:11, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Repeated long term bullying

PeteK, first you in violation of Wikipedia:No Personal Attacks and other Wikipedia policies publish a long row of personal attacks, insults, and denigrating comments, the first ones (during your first ten days here at Wikipedia) described here and something (26 Aug.) that stands out as slander (and one of your many personal attacks) if you don't substantiate it: "Not surprisingly 'Americans for Waldorf Education' and sister site 'Waldorf Answers' are considered by Waldorf critics and Waldorf supporters alike to be comprised of fanatical Waldorf supporters.".

You have twice refused to substantiate it with regard to "Waldorf supporters alike", beyond referring to yourself, and maybe some members of your family?, the second time on 5 Oct. documented here and have both times written that you will not substantiate it if I do not sue you for what you have written in the discussion.

Above at this page you 23 Oct. describe my description of the historical context of a statement by Steiner in 1897 as "nonsense supported by more nonsense", wihout any further substantiatíon of what you write with regard to the content of what I have written. In this, it resembles the statement made by you earlier in discussions here at Wikipedia, mentioned above, that stands out as slander as long as you do not substantiate it, which you have not yet done, and constitutes yet another of your many violations of WP rules for civility WP:CIVIL#Examples Wikipedia:Civility. You also write above that you will delete anything I write in the article on the defamatory anti-Waldorf group PLANS, seemingly regardless of whether it in full is cited and your deletion is supported by a WP policy or not, which would constitute a general violation of Wikipedia policies.

You refuse to participate in, and 14 Oct. tried to sabotage the Request for mediation regarding the articles you're involved in here at Wikipedia, by completely replacing the original description of the issues to be mediated with your own description, and deleting the listing of two of the articles listed in the request, after nine of the eleven invited editors had accepted the invitation. As a result, two of them withdrew their earlier given acceptance of it. Then you 23 Oct. try to get me critizised for telling what I felt for a short moment about your long row of personal attacks, insults and denigrating comments, and at my personal Talks page have told me "Deal with it!". You also write that you're bigger than me and that just seeing you in person would make it necessary for me to change my underwear (another personal attack according to Examples of personal attacks.

Then again, after an admin advices you to be more civil in the future, you here make yet another personal attack, suggesting that I should try to prove that I'm not a lunatic (one of your many repeated similar personal attacks since you arrived at Wikipedia in August), and tell me you want to have a discussion with me at my personal talks page. Nice. --Thebee 11:25, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

please take this somewhere else. i repeat, this talk page is for discussing improvements in the article, nothing else.trueblood 12:21, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

The above points out a number of violations of Wikipedia policies in postings published in this discussion. I need a summary of them here to link to in a complaint to Admins about a number of Personal attacks. It's just a list, not much to discuss. Thebee 12:55, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

What the bleep is all this? Over here, you are still repeating "hate group" slurs; on another page, where you've been asked to document this, you've complained I was asking too much of you too quickly. Please paste in your documentation if you intend to go on calling anybody a "hate group." You claim above it is "in full cited" - put the citations right here then, please, so we can all see what they look like. Why are you ignoring, after several days, requests for this information? You may rest assured your accusations that somebody is a "hate group" are not going to pass unchallenged in any forum I have access to. I know it is a little shocking for you, as you'd gotten quite complacent putting up web sites where nobody can argue with you and all your friends congratulate you. HERE Mr. [delete name] you are going to be asked repeatedly for your documentation that PLANS is a "hate group" and you are not going to hear the end of it when you ignore these requests.DianaW 12:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Trueblood, our friend TheBee won't take this somewhere private - it is his policy to make loud noises in public places. He's following me around all the talk pages, starting new subject headers for the purpose of trying to intimidate me into sourcing statements on talk pages instead of working on the articles themselves. I hope the administrators are watching this. I've stopped reading his long-winded blowhard posts and am allowing his lunacy to speak for itself. I'm as tired of it as you and I suspect everyone else is. Pete K 12:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

PeteK: "I've stopped reading his long-winded blowhard posts and am allowing his lunacy to speak for itself." That would be yet another violation of the Wikipedia policy for WP:CIVIL#Examples and another violation of the Wikipedia policy on Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks#Examples_of_personal_attacks Thebee 16:09, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, please don't forget to register that one on your goofy list that pretty much confirms what I've said above. Edited to add that your edit summaries also speak volumes - changing the line spacing of the talk pages, bolding signature... What gives? Are you hoping that by improving the format of this talk page - more people will read through your nonsense and follow your links to your defamatory websites? Pete K 17:18, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

On "...please don't forget to register that one on your goofy list that pretty much confirms what I've said above. Edited to add that your edit summaries also speak volumes - changing the line spacing of the talk pages, bolding signature... What gives? Are you hoping that by improving the format of this talk page - more people will read through your nonsense...". This would constitute yet another violation of the Wikipedia policy for WP:CIVIL#Examples, your second one today on this Talks page, wouldn't you say? Thebee 21:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More violations of Wikipedia civility policies

No, I wouldn't say. I don't think ANY of the things I have said to you violate Wikipedia policy - and apparently neither do the administrators or I would have received warnings by now - and furthermore, you have brought the things I have said to you on yourself. Grow up! Discuss the edits here and stop WHINING ABOUT EVERYTHING I WRITE HERE. It's ridiculous and is basically harassment. I know you don't really care if you look like an idiot - since your websites can't be referenced here anyway, but you could at least try to refrain from harassing everyone who edits these pages. Harassment, I'm quite sure, violates Wikipedia policy. Please stop harassing me and others here. I'd be happy to discuss edits with you, but this nonsense you keep pursuing here goes way beyond good taste. STOP HARASSING ME! Pete K 01:11, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. This refers to not only your recent personal attacks here on me, but also your repeated earlier personal attacks on me and others at different other Talks pages. As a few of many examples, see the five personal attacks you made on 9 october, and some few of your many other personal attacks documented here, since your last warning by Admin Golden Wattle on 1 September.

What you write - again, after an admin on 23 Oct suggested that you try to be more civil in the future - constitutes a number of new violations of the Wikipedia policy for WP:CIVIL#Examples, including a new violation of the Wikipedia policy on Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks#Examples_of_personal_attacks ("I know you don't really care if you look like an idiot").

Can you take a look at the policies in question? They do not seem important to you. Complaints about your repeated violations of them is not harassment. Your repeated violations of them, some described above, are, in this case. Your violations are the only ones I complain about, as they are so numerous, as also others seem to have noticed, then not in relation to me, and you seem to insist on making them.

See for example a comment on 5 October by User Connor K on your attacks on others.

"Pete K, you are being incredibly aggressive. Please stop attacking editors. Disagreements are normal. Accusing someone of playing naive to do harm is, in my opinion, very inappropriate and demeaning. I cannot comment on the article because I know very little about it. But I can say that you are way out of line regarding Wikipedia’s policies in handling disputes.--Connor K. 22:35, 5 October 2006 (UTC)"

The reason I address them here at this Talks page of one of the articles you're involved in, is that they repeatedly have made, and repeatedly continue to disrupt and make sensible discussions of the articles extremely difficult. Stop violating them, and I will not complain about it. Thebee 06:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Man all this fighting and all these attacks are getting entertaining! Great stuff!. I, for one, think it makes this discussion all the more entertaining and needs to stay on this page. I just hope nobody here starts hurling constant insults at me. 64.185.4.7 00:47, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Glad to be of service. Pete K 01:11, 26 October 2006 (UTC)